1930s dance tunes

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I don't even know what you call this really. Big band stuff. The songs from Pennies From Heaven, the 3 LP soundtrack of which I treasure.

Ambrose and his Orchestra. All the supposedly sub-Porter/Gershwin stuff.

I prefer the stuff with vocals. I prefer the ballads. I prefer the romantic stuff. Same old same old.

Other favourites from that album - 'You've Got Me Crying Again' and 'The Moon Got In My Eyes'. It's not just the songs though - I think these were recorded later in different styles that don't appeal to me. I listen to the the version of 'Pennies From Heaven' on there and I want to cry. I listen to Frank Sinatra's moronic swing version and I want to punch him.

The NME gave the reissue 10/10 I think, which was bang on.

Any recommendations or thoughts on why all this stuff still packs such a punch?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus Nick! Stuff from the thirties is just a load of old blokes parping away on trumpets and stuff!

― Keith Watson (kmw), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

1. They weren't old then.
2. As opposed to what? Synthesizers? Electric guitars? Drum machines?

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Right you are; sorry, my mistake.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

It's OK Nom, Keith is being a woind-up merchant.

WHO WILL SECOND MY LOVE OF SENTIMENTAL BIG BAND NUMBERS?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I've seconded it implicitly, but will now do so explicitly.

Bix Beiderbecke!
Duke Ellington!
Artie Shaw!

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I understand what you mean, Nick. When I hear stuff like this I often feel that it's awakening some old dormant species-memory—some old gene—buried deep in my muscles.

I wonder how the world would have to be different in order for that type of vocal quality to be what one strives for.

Or how musicianship would be different today had we the armies of 2nd- and 3rd-tier working musicians that were necessary to maintain these songs' vitality.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it still packs a punch because we're more indebted to this music's traditions than we think? But are we?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

is the hot club de france part of this? cos that is truly....hot!

got this stephane grappelly +django reinhardt lp recorded in 1938 with the hot club de france, and it rules!

victor ambrose: is a favourite for the oh-your-name's-Ambrose-like-the-bandleader-i-suppose-youve-never-heard-of-him-dear-i'll-have-a-jacket-potato pensioners that come into the cafe i work at.

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

On the non-ballad end of things, there seem like two distinct lines of swing dance music. I know it's not what you're question's about but I want to include it here as ballast or counterpoint, so that what you're talking about comes through clearer, the way a band would play a mix of ballads and up-tempo tunes. This is my own system of categorization and no one else's by the way; I've never read a book about this music and know virtually nothing about it except what I've heard with my ears off scratchy recordings made long ago.

Major key swing:
"Take the A Train"
"Flat Foot Floogie"
"Chinatown, My Chinatown"
"Beat Me Daddy, Eight to the Bar"

vs.

Minor key swing:
"St. James Infirmary"
"Puttin on the Ritz"

And the bridge between the two, both minor and major: "It Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Got That Swing"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

not only will i second your love of sentimental big band numbers, but i can probably top you in general sadsackness when it comes to this stuff - i've been known to waltz around the living with a couch cushion as ivie anderson sings "stormy weather," and when i visit my parents, my father and i always break out the jamesons and the al bowlly and get all maudlin. pathetic, no? i agree with tracer in that such a response seems to be from a near-genetic level.
i recommend that you get some oldrich novy, if you can. he was a hugely popular czech actor/singer who did a lot of wonderful big-band vocal stuff in the 30s/40s. has the added romance factor of being sung in a foreign language.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed w/Ambrose about Django, he has some truly heart-scorching love songs to go along with his fret-scorching barn-burners. His guitar playing is like being sung to in a foreign language, it insinuates and teases and plays hard-to-get on a level that is probably not technically "beyond language" but certainly doesn't use anything you'd find in a dictionary.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not into the sappy ballads, but I love the scorchers from this time. Can't remember names, but I remember playing a couple in big band at college and listening to some great records...back when they had clarinets in the bands and minor key 'Sing Sing Sing'ish sections and shout choruses.

Tracer, there's a big gap between New Orleans standards like Chinatown and St. James Infirmary and "Puttin' on the Ritz!"

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

didnt he only have one hand or something? ps this may be wrong

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Jordan - especially the Taco version!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

(But seriously, what's the gap, tell me, I have no idea about the Musical History of this stuff!)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Memphis Jug Band's "Lindberg Hop"

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(ambrose when Django was quite young he burned his left hand in a fire and it gnarled his two smallest fingers up in a horrid little claw. To compensate he basically invented a new way of playing that relied less on chords and more on single notes i.e. he invented the guitar solo.) (gruesome personal histories i have down, for some reason!)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

My pre-1940's history is less than detailed as well, but Chinatown and St. James are New Orleans tunes that come more from the gospel and folk tradition, while Puttin' on the Ritz is more from the northern pop music/showtune/Tin Pan Alley scene (it's Irving Berlin, right?).

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Ivie Anderson! is! great!

I'd recommend Ebody Rhapsody, a collection of Ellington numbers from the 30s-40s spotlighting his vocalists.

What else? I haven't yet developed a strong taste for swing, which is perhaps why I enjoy 1920s/early 30s pop a bit more than the later stuff. I also tend to enjoy the lugubrious ballads more than the uptempo numbers, though that's not always true.

"Loch Lomond" is pretty much my favorite song ever, it sounds very different in different hands. There's the Bennie Goodman Carnegie Hall version (it also has "Bei Mir Bist du Schön"!!!) which I would listen to every Saturday throughout high school. I also adore a version by Maxine Sullivan.

Mildred Bailey and Connee Boswell are my favorite singers from this era, seek out anything by them (incl. the Boswell Sisters).

Blah blah blah.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"Puttin' on the Ritz" was Fred Astaire's signature song for a while.

"St. James Infirmary" is a variant of an old English ballad called "The Unfortunate Rake"--other variations incl. "One Morning in May" and "The Streets of Laredo." I can go on about this for hours, but I'd probably put everyone to sleep.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

if you can - you should track down a copy of 'swing tanzen verboten' by charlie and his orchestra. swing music and nazi propaganda swing during world war 2.

the germans using the popularity of swing to spread their message. quite disturbing.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

B-b-but Swing Kids!!!!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

A film which for once made you want to be on the side of the Nazis -- and a Kenneth Branagh Nazi at that!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

That Charlie and His Orchestra stuff is terrible though. If Nick is looking to explore the era, what's the point of recommending some of the dullest music it produced? Because of the craaazzy Nazi connection?

he basically invented a new way of playing that relied less on chords and more on single notes i.e. he invented the guitar solo

Bah. Tampa Red and Scrapper Blackwell to thread.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Who are they?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Northern urban blues guitarists who recorded in the 20's and 30's. Red played in a lot of different contexts, but I'm thinking here of his recordings with pianist Tommy Dorsey. Blackwell almost exclusively played in a duo with pianist Leroy Carr. The former's "Tight Like That" and the latter's "How Long How Long Blues" being two of the biggest hits of the era. Unlike the more celebrated Delta guys (House/Patton/Johnsons Tommy and Robert), their accompaniment status lent them more freedom. With the pianists holding down rhythm and chording, the guitarists were free to play around with the whole range of the guitar. Those were probably the first two to really get sustained upper register exploration down on record. The Southern guys would toss of a quick single string run here and there, but they were generally more constrained by their unaccompanied status.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

bah on me, that should read Tom Dorsey not Tommy Dorsey. Not to be confused with the bandleader, tho his music is probably more on topic! Never heard it tho, always wanted to hear the stuff w/ Sinatra.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanx Diamond, good archaeological shiznit there

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Old Music, but I'm not yet quite sure what N. is on about. I think I think of 'ballads' and 'dance' as different genres from that period.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, well I realise my description is rather confusing. I like the uptempo stuff as well as the slow mushy numbers. The same (dance) bands covered both though. And I imagine many of the slow ones are meant to be slow danced to. Maybe they're not called dance bands. I just had it in my head that they were. I really know very little about it all. And the internet is pretty useless for this sort of thing. For example, on of my favourites, as mentioned above, is Elsie Carlisle with the Ambrose Orchestra's 'You've Got Me Crying Again'. Searching on which reveals only 10 hits on Google, most of which are just references to the Potter compilation.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

There's that Sunday show on Radio 2 I should listen to more.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Pinefox not different genres really--any band/singer worth their/his/her salt would have to switch it up b/t uptempo numbers and ballads. And ALL such music was meant to be danced to! As it should be!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd like to hear more of this type of music
also,search:
cab calloway

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Pinefox - you should get a copy of Early Classics Of The Big Band Era Vol. 1: Dance You Lame Fuckers.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

It includes Mildred Bailey's great hit "Put Your Hands in the Air (And Won't You Wave Them As Though You Didn't Care?)" and Vaughan Deleath's "Everybody's Doing the 'Ho.'"

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

with very cursory searching, this was the best i found with regards to oldrich novy/czech big band music:

http://www.musicabona.com/catalog1/110826-2.html

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Bing rools

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Der Bingle.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Jo Stafford but she's more 40s and 50s I think

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Pennies From Heaven (but then I love most of Dennis Potter's work and specifically the whole period-pop-songs-fleshing-out-drama concept). I only have the original single LP of tunes from the series (number 10 in the album chart in 1978, apparently) - Henry Hall's "Radio Times" has always been my favourite (perhaps because it was also used in a number of documentaries to signify inter-war suburbia) but Nick is right - "The Moon Got In My Eyes" is a beauty.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"Couldn't Be Cuter" has long been a favourite of mine; was played in the home when i was very young (only saw 'Pennies from Heaven' 4 years ago or so) and it has stayed with me. Al Bowlly of course. There aren't voices like that anymore... they weren't even *then*. Certainly an upbeat, dance number, it is utterly infectious. From memory, I think it's used at some moment of euphoria (or at least to exemplify that euphoria dormant in the characters) in PFH.
It has some of the most purely *happy*, ecstatic instrumental breaks and solos on the brass instruments, that I have ever heard. It's all really joyous in a way I cannot imagine many records being now.

― Tom May (Tom May), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I think I have been underplaying how much I like the mid and up tempo stuff. 'Couldn't Be Cuter' is indeed joyous, as is 'Yes Yes (My Baby Said Yes Yes)'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

search That's What I Call Sweet Music, the R. Crumb compilation of '20s big-band stuff--the "Singin' in the Rain" by Gus Arnheim & His Orchestra on it is totally priceless.

do not forget Cab Calloway and Jimmie Lunceford in your quest for this stuff. it is grate.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 14 August 2003 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and duh LOUIS JORDAN, who started a bit later (really flowered in the '40s) but is U+K for anyone who likes '30s dance tunes, '40s dance tunes, rock & roll, R&B, pop music, lyrics, tunes, singing, playing, rhythm, fun, or, um, anything else.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 14 August 2003 07:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks Matos.

btw - the horn sample on White Town's 'Abort/Fail/Retry' (or whatever it's called) is on the PFH set. It's the peculiar riff from 'My Woman'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 07:54 (twenty-two years ago)

wait if we can recommend '20s stuff here the floodgates will open....

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

i was just thinking the same thing...

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 14 August 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

six months pass...

then let the floodgates open...

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Sunday, 15 February 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

and now, let us close the floodgates, and assess what came through

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Saturday, 1 April 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

Al Bowlly 30's...... Mike Skinner 00's, though Bowlly is a better singer

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 4 April 2006 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

no mention of jack hylton?

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 7 April 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

talking of bowlly,

i think i like 'maybe its because' the most, at the moment

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 7 April 2006 20:24 (nineteen years ago)

i think i'll write bing crosby
ask him what to do
to stop my kid from crooning
bu-bu-bu-booo!

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 7 April 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

i see alba mentions elsie carlisle upthread. the lyrics i just posted are from another elsie carlisle song, 'my baby's a crooner"

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 8 April 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

and its very good!

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 8 April 2006 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

You might also consider the high octane barn burners that Bob Wills had his Texas Playboys started cuttin'- rug to. Most lethal in the 40s, still, there's at least five-years-worth of oh-so-happy depression-era dance numbers. My hyphenators killing me.

― christoff (christoff), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

charlton has been well apprised of the charms of bob wills but everyone, everywhere, could always stand to do a little brushing up on this count.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

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