Best rhythm programmers

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In your opinion who are the best rhythm programmers around and why?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i like squarepusher's rhythms

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(clever and messy whilst still being dancey)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

barf

top 10 right now:

- jammer
- wiley
- the guy outta the junior boys
- whoever produced david banner's "mississippi"
- timbaland (yeah, yeah, every time i think he falls off he comes back, cf. "deliverance")
- superpitcher
- lenky
- whoever made the "sars" riddim
- dizzee
- billy squire

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

what's so special about their rhythms then barfboy?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I do loath that word 'barf'. Couldn't you yanks come up with something a little more attractive sounding. Say, "Bluerrgh"?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"berowra"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

what makes a good rhythm? are the sounds an issue here?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

dj rush....

...ok maybe not.

― tylero, Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"berowra"
-- electric sound of jim (electricsoun...), August 19th, 2003.

Oh Jim that is fabulous.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

At the risk of being called a purist (berowra!), I nominate Derrick May. I love his twitchy, restless, syncopated bouncy programming, which sounds like the drumsare trying to jump up in the air.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

mississippi was self produced by david banner!!! buy the damn cd jess!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

really i mean i know it makes it easier to rip off faux naifs like me and dk if you just download shit but banner deserves your cash!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Another vote for Derrick May. Though my tops are:

1) Kurtis Mantronik
2) D. May
3) Prince ("Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" being one of the greatest examples of sublime drum machine programming ev-ur)
4) Juan Atkins
5) Timbaland

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

morgan geist, dr. dre - for impossible levels of stealth

bpitch artists, especially ellen allien and feadz - probably the only artists doing anything rhythmically new in idm, enormous contributions in the field of of squelchy grainy noises that improbably pixelate into rhythms

just blaze - best use of weird ascending and descending sounds ("just blaaaAAAZEEE!) by a non-house artist.

squarepusher??? at least you could have said chris clark?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(those are current picks, not the hall of fame)

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

if i knew who chris clark was maybe i would have said him. i'm not especially immersed in this genre.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Second Mantronik.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:32 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, geist and dre are just evil. totally insidious.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

part of me doesn't trust a producer on some level when all of their work is so instantly appealing and slinky. (which is why they don't often make it into top 10s, subconsciously.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

this question is frustrating because i can name a hundred producers of amazing rhythms but i can think of very few who are doing anything they couldn't have been doing four years ago.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Mantronik
Premo
Jay Dee
J Swinscoe
Amon Tobin
Schooly D (if only for PSK)

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i think only the current ukg guys (and maybe some of the dancehall guys) are really doing anything that couldn't (or wasn't) done in/for the last four-five years.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

premo?!?!!!??

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i really really don't want to say "the DFA because it's house that sounds LIVE"

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

its ok vahid this is nu ilm

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

alternately you could mention ?uestlove

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

the way he goes bdum TISH bdum TISH.....so groundbreaking....

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

favorite rhythm programmers:

the rza
puffy
dj shadow

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Jammy
Jack Scorpio
Lenky
Madlib
Jay Dee
and, my favourite girl...Lederhosen Lucil.

― cybele (cybele), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

oh shit, how could I forget RZA? He'd be my top choice.
And yes, trife, Premo. Guess you weren't around then.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:49 (twenty-two years ago)

the rza has one drum sound!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i didnt need to be, hes being using the same drum pattern for thirteen years!!!! xpost with jess haha

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

So does Premo! (for some reason I'm more forgiving of RZA for it)

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

haha xpost

but can you appreciate the fact that at one time it wasn't typical? I guess he's a victim of his own success.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

beat =! rhythm

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, it's tricky i guess. i mean, get too "virtuositic" and you end up in squarepusher territory and that's the last place i wanna go.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

well of course i love love love premo but never for his rhythmic innovation!!! ill nod my head but im conditioned to

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

so what you're saying is squarepusher is the rhythm equivalent of guitar widdly widdly?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

great thing about dancehall i just realized: new rhythms sound like new rhythms, most of the time.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

as far as tim creating new rhythms, 'is that yo bitch' is his furthest out beat and thats just booker t and the mgs - soul dressing

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean except the indian stuff which is just indian stuff

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think at the time ('92-ish) it WAS kinda innovative, but that, ie innovation, is not really the point of this thread, no?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, wasn't "Come Clean" innovative? "Supa Star"?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

jess, twenty minutes ago: Dubplatestyle: haha how long before oops posts "come clean!!"

i embarrassingly love group home but supa star is terrible

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Okayyyy, so it wasn't innovative? I mean, you knew I was gonna mention it because it was, so pat your smug self on the back.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

all time top 10!:

- omni trio
- dem 2
- mannie fresh
- a guy called gerald
- derrick may
- wiley
- timba
- dillinja
- shekspere
- basemen jaxx

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes i think i must be the only person in hiphop who hates come clean!! come on, that record has aint the devil happy and d.original and jungle music on it, fuck this minimalist shit

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

wait i get it: Premo and "Come Clean" are both caught in the "not mainstream, yet not too obscure and are fetishized by corny white people who I, myself being a corny white person, must try to distance myself from." gotchya

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

mannie fresh has made some GREAT rhythms!!! sometimes you can follow them independent of the rest of the song

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 22 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i also like lots of those old funk 45s that have chunky guitar stuff, and the guitar in the durutti column song 'otis'

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

now you're talkin'

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Who can you recommend at the techno end of things these days who can really work a rhythm box?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

o!
i was guessing there wasn't gonna be any widdly widdly in trife's suggestions.

(fwiw & blindly obvious): squarepusher was interesting for a nano second or more there. he took the "foreground the drum & bass" thing of, ah, drum & bass and pushed it to ridiculous. but drum and bass already had its own widdly widdly excess guys.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I like simple drums meself. The simpler the better. But they can be simple and radical, that's fine, I like that. They don't have to be traditional or cliched, just simple. Like many of the names posted up above in various styles of music - most of them are free of roccoco flourishes and complex fiddley bits.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

will i be laughed out of the room if i say Severed Heads?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I won't laugh Jim. Especially if it's Since The Accident Era 'Heads.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

who programmed the electronic drums on those sly stone records? there's a similar sound on the first graham central station record, so maybe larry graham. its just really primitive (maybe you couldn't program drum machines back then?) but sounds great.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

also: john robie!

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Best jungle drum programmers:

- Foul Play (can't believe no one has mentionned them yet!! My vote for vest drums eva)
- Omni Trio
- Ray Keith (esp his Penny Black stuff - sometimes a little messy, but generally ace)
- Whoever did the 'UFO' series of 12"s c96 - the drums on these were soo good. Actually, these could have been Ray Kieth too, ar maybe Roni Size? (help anyone??)

Dillinja was clearly an ace jungle producer, but I'm sure that with him its so much about the drums. Photek is another one - lots of clever drums, but a bit too fiddly. the thing with Omni Trio and Foul Play is that the drums are the tune, that is what's so amazing about those tracks.

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

rob playford?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 07:29 (twenty-two years ago)

velvet a very good choice, the stalker for example.

Daft Punk have to be in this, they are not consistently 100 percent rhythm mashing but the occasions when they have (Mothership Reconnection Remix to name one) are special.

Could someone in UR be listed here aswell as May? I'm just unsure of who does which track but even Transition last year was rhythmically fucked in a cool way, that may have been Mad Mike.

Poor old Stanton Warriors eh Tim? I saw them a few times recently and the songs they're picking to remix defies belief, Satisfaction by Benny Benassi, David by GusGus, etc etc etc, why do breaks producers think remixing the latest house stuff is doing anything but killing their scene. Then again it's more entertaining than most of the breaks tunes. They had one fun remix of Roll Out by Ludacris but really they are dull as hell now, I even like breaks but the Plump DJs are so much more interesting and play so many more fun tracks.

I also nominate Ewan Pearson.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 08:00 (twenty-two years ago)

um, i don't really agree that danny weed, target, wiley and certainly not jammer are programming anything particularly different from timbaland or mannie fresh were a couple of years ago but if there must be a token garage producer i'd say jon e cash, check out 'spanish' if you don't believe me! it's flamenco garage

― sean g, Tuesday, 19 August 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(ice rink not withstanding obv)

― sean g, Tuesday, 19 August 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Filterheadz!

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Premier - everything he makes has such heat to it and is so solid

?uestlove - yeah whatever sure it sometimes sounds like "bdum TISH bdum TISH" but that sounds better than 90% of other peoples' shit!...he's very rhythmically creative actually and manages to make wack rhythms very catchy (fr'instance, see "Water" or "Pussy Galore")

Eminem - dude listen to KRS-One when he says "be a producer"!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagree, Sean G. There's way more fucking around with dancehall in grime beats than in Timbaland and Mannie Fresh, and I don't think bass and handclaps have been used that way before. A lot of them hardly even sound like 'beats' any more. Hungry Tiger's 'Mos Wanted (remix)' is the most original grime rhythm I've heard, apart from Ice Rink maybe.

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I LOVE the guys who did the production for Destiny's Child 'Writing on the Wall'. Their beats are the best...they're so hard, but it's easy to overlook that with all the synth strings and such.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i heard that prince did
all the 'when doves cry' drum program
in one session

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

He's not my favorite or anything (that'd be Timbaland), but nobody's mentioned DJ Quik yet. Quik is every bit as slinky and insidious as Dre, and he doesn't use that obnoxious ahrythmic organ fart that Dre's been fond of lately. He's not quite as good as Dre at conjuring up cinematic sweep, but that doesn't really have much to do with rhythm anyway. And he's been better at fluidly incorporating Indian and dancehall elements. And that beat from "Addictive" is just ridiculous.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Dillinja was clearly an ace jungle producer, but I'm sure that with him its so much about the drums.

i dunno how anyone can listen to "warrior" or "the angel's fell" and say that, but hey. also, as someone said above "rhythm != drums". about the only thing that makes dillinja any good, anymore, is his basslines.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The tone of this thread depresses me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Science Fiction by Dan Bell is one of my all time top five Techno faves.

Mike Ink on the old Studio One records threw down a mean groove as well. It is a shame nobody talks about those records around these parts.

Larry Heard's entire career to thread.

Derrick May because it is obvious.

Jeff Mills for being the only person in techno to still be able to pull innovative rhythms out of a 909 in 2003.

Adonis because No Way Back and Poke are two of the best 808 workouts ever.

Aphex because he is the shit and everybody else is too much of a ilm-hipster pussy to admit it. I Care Because You Do owns every last one of you.

Maurizio for being mad subtle.

Colm O'Ciosiog because listing him in this thread is perverse.

Neil Landstrumm for those first three insane banging ass chi-town jack 12's on Peacefrog in 1994.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Dog! All the fast Plaid stuff is really good.

― Dan I., Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Autechre and BOC to thread.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, black dog and maurizio are admittedly k-awesome but aren't they just real good at copying african/latin/reggae rhythms into techno boxes?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

DJ Shadow's beats cover an absurdly broad range of vibes/feelings/motifs and the way he integrates sounds of all kinds, ancient and futurist, dirty and shimmering, fun and spooky and hard and hype, makes for some very exciting and powerful music. Off the top of my head, only he and Timbaland and Amon Tobin (well and Cornelius too) utilize found-sounds and traditional beat-making techniques with such creativity and stealth (ie it's not all like "WOO-WEE LOOKEE HOW INNOVATIVE THIS SHIT IS!" like anticon stuff, but more like "okay so this is what I hear in my head and, oh hey holy shit, nobody else has music like this in their head, huh?"

But until he gets some people doing hundreds of overdubs of singing off-key "AW NAW! HELL NAW!"s, he'll still only be a mere shadow (ha ha) of um "good production". < /hmmm?>

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I second Mad Mike. He's easy to forget because you can always trust him.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

carl craig, obv.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

la mer est grande, static friendly, ladies and gentlemen, 4 my peepz, angola, throw, remake, the climax, chicken noodle soup, elements, etc. etc.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll second Plaid and Carl Craig - at the moment for me it's all about Sticky/Jason Kaye, Seiji, Tony Nwachuku, Zinc is great as well...Ian O'Brien, Kirk Degiorgio, Scott Herren, El-B, Dego, Kaidi Tatham, Horsepower...crucify me for this if you like, but listening to Adamski's "liveandirect" last night for the first time in eons and was quite suprised at how funky the beats were...

― heywood jablomi (heywood), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

oh ish, can't forget Wookie! "down on me" is top 5 best beat programming evah, fa sho. also have to agree about photek re: jungle programmers. dj crystl is up there too...

― heywood jablomi (heywood), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, black dog and maurizio are admittedly k-awesome but aren't they just real good at copying african/latin/reggae rhythms into techno boxes?

Hence the term: rhythm programmer

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

SFA does some good stuff with rhythms

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

christ

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

marc acardipane (hee hee)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

christ is definitely wicked with dee riddim, mon. Nice call!

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

tadd mullinix aka dabrye

― rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

99% of the above seconded as well. i'm suspicious of dr. dre's ability to infect my brain with beats year after year...it's like he's conducting some sinister experiment with a massive government grant and a huge conspiracy behind it or something

― rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

photek
morgan geist
Stereotyp

― colin o'hara (jed_e_3), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Bernard Sumner
Stephen Morris
Gillian Gilbert
Peter Hook
Isolee
Anu Pillai
Arthur Baker

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

good call re arthur baker.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

And Isolee!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

marc acardipane (hee hee)
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), August 19th, 2003.

Absolutely, Strongo. Good call.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

superpicher

yr joking? i'm a superpitcher freak but i don't think his rhythms are anything to write home about.

i think the current master of drum programming is probably maurice fulton. i don't like everything he does but his programming is insane.

historically, i'd rate the all time best rhythm programmers as -

chep nunez (not strictly a programmer but his edits were rhythmic genius)
john robie
tom ellard
albert cabrera
lenny d (his early freestyle programming was amazing)
hank shocklee
schooly d (just for that one beat)
kenny dope gonzalez
todd terry
carl craig
j saul kane
whoever programmed the drums in renegade soundwave
sly dunbar
steely and cleevie
prince jammy
keith le blanc
jg thirwell
todd edwards (i've never liked his music but the drums...!!)
stefan robbers (if only for the 'straight tripping' ep)
dillinja
rob playford
cajmere
armando
gherkin jerks
isolee
akufen
atom heart
wiley
matt haines
photek
rico conning

fuck, i could go on forever.......

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 20 August 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Two unmentioned ones: Jel (very complex yet funky and soulful) and Kid Koala (alright, he doesn’t ‘program’, but the beats on ‘Emperor’s Crash Course In Cantonese’ and the breakdown in ‘Music For Morning People’ is genious).

― Orange, Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Autechre are rhythm geniuses.

Also, Organized Noize has a ton of great moments on the Outkast records (esp. Humble Mumble w/the Brazilian clave sounding beat).

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Ricardo Villalobos!

― Philippe, Wednesday, 20 August 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

question was brought up as a joke - i certainly wouldn't call him best rhythm programmer of course, but i still think he has an incredible understanding and feel for drum programming. in particular he knows the importance of repositioning kick and snare hits, when to do it, and just how much. anyway i think he's an outstanding musician and i love to watch him play

i desire a new d'angelo record

― ron (ron), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

those early Steve gurley 2step trax .mj for wanna be startin' something. wideboys. metro arena. reece. kraftwerk (computer world!!). jonny l. whoever produced that Liz Torres track Mind Games (under the name Quest on Trax).

― edddd, Thursday, 21 August 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

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