Don't dance-oriented genres tend to be more limiting than some other types of genres?

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You have to maintain a certain type of rhythm or you are going to lose your dancers.

This thread was inspired by a comment on the "dance is dead" thread. I don't want to just talk about "dance music" in the narrow sense it is used on that thread, but all music for dancing, or for social dancing anyway. (Merce Cunningham's dancing doesn't require music of any particular kind whatsoever, I suppose.)

It's true that all genres have their limitations (in order to be genres at all), but the regularity requiresd for dance genres is a very noticeable limitation (regardless of whether the genre house or salsa or something else).

I'm not down on music made for dancing. I think I may be noticing this more because I am slightly burned out on listening to music for dancing (salsa) but not going out and dancing very much. Even so, I've gotten used to mixing it up musically, over the years, so listening so much to a dance genre is somewhat alien to me.

Al Andalous, Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Overly cautious wording of the subject heading kind of saps it of force, kind of. I didn't know what other genres to use as examples. Maybe jazz? And it's not as though I love it.

Al Andalous, Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I seriously doubt that keeping a rhythm is exclusive to dance genres.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Unless music theory has fooled me; I suppose you could theoretically dance to Canon in D Major.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

But within a genre, you have to keep things fairly regular for your dancers. (I don't know, maybe drum n bass, for example, is looser about this?) The music is going to keeping coming back around, and it has to, to stay within its particular dance music genre. Other types of music can have a lot more flexibility with rhythm, going into umetered passages (the way some long Arabic songs do), slowing dont, shifting pace in ways that are basically undanceable.

There are a lot of problems with making these generalizations, I admit. For one thing, it's not very clear how to fairly pick genres or sub-genres of the same size, in order to make comparisons.

Al Andalous, Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yes repetetive beats are a 'limitation' - but in order to dance for fun without having to know the whole piece of music and what changes occur within it exactly when it is a requirement. quite how that renders all rhythmically repetetive music 'inferior' to other supposedly more creative/challenging music i don't know. i don't think it does.

but rock n' roll, punk, doowop, funk, hip hop, reggae, synth pop, indie-dance, house, techno, disco, garage, jungle, dancehall and heavy metal must all conform to this vague notion of recurring rhythmic patterns in order for people to dance to them in large congregations. of course you can TRY dancing to free improv...

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

plus you have a bpm range ranging from slow winding reggae (60bpm) to around 200bpm (nosebleed gabba) giving you a fair amount of scope for making contemporary dance music

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Limitations are what makes music interesting. No friction without limitations, no interest without friction.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i agree with the statement in the thread title. but then i have to ask myself, limit on what? and a voice on my head goes "a limit on what the producer can do" and then i think "but what the producer wants to do is make repetitive grooves, otherwise we wouldn't be calling him a dance producer we'd be calling him innerzone orchestra"

i think the limitation is on what i hear when i go out to dance to house; hearing stuff like "the jump-off" on a regular basis is a new thing.

vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

thank you, electroclash.

vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dance genres that focus on great beats are far less limited rhythmically than most rock.

And there is a fine art to creating the right effects within narrow conventions.

And dance genres with limited rhythms can do a million amazing things with textures.

Keith McD (Keith McD), Saturday, 23 August 2003 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

quite how that renders all rhythmically repetetive music 'inferior' to other supposedly more creative/challenging music i don't know. i don't think it does.

I hope you realize that I haven't said that it does render dance music "inferior," and I've tried to avoid impying it either.

Al Andalous, Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"but the regularity required for dance genres is a very noticeable limitation"

To me any genre that always uses the same instruments is just as noticeably limited as a genre that always uses the same beats or structures.

Keith McD (Keith McD), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Right, I guess to be fair you would have to create a list of musical parameters, weigh them in importance, and then calculate the extent of limitation based on all those considerations (which might be amusing for the mathematically inclined, but wouldn't amount to anything objective, obviously).

Al Andalous, Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

yes,the genres are limited,but it doesn't matter,cause there are loads of genres

robin (robin), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also,does anyone else find that electro, (the most rhythmically diverse genre of dance music?) is very difficult to dance to?

robin (robin), Saturday, 23 August 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

not especially, its still 4 beats per bar so you can dance to it as you would techno or house

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i go out and dance to techno all the time,and house sometimes,but whenever i try and dance to electro (pre electroclash) i find it nearly impossible...more so that drum and bass,even

robin (robin), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard this said before.

I haven't found electro difficult to dance to. I think electro favours a fleet-of-foot, twitchy kind of person who like to use their feet. I was a boxer when I was a kid, and I suddenly realised one night that I use my boxing technique, especially the footwork, when dancing to electro! For this reason perhaps I've always thought of electo as warrior music. It hits the feet. House is more pelvic. I think we need to take account of tempos when having this discussion, incidentally.

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

there needs to be more dance music at 40 bpm or lower

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

not warrior music, robot music!

Keith McD (Keith McD), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah,i should have said,i'm a fairly shit dancer
i was more making the point that it seems to be more difficult to dance to than,say,techno

robin (robin), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Re 40 bpm dance music -

With elongated drum sounds, perhaps? That would make for a smeary-streaky, slow-time dance experience, like dancing on the moon.

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to do slow pseudo- Tai Chi to some Coil songs.

But anyway, I wanted to say that the unstated qualifier here is obviously "for listening purposes." I think that's the thing. When I'm dancing, there's no issue, but when I am sitting about my apartment, there's less reason to stick with those limits (though sometimes I still want to hear it, and sometimes it brings back some of the same feelings I get from dancing). That's all. For the purposes of dancing, music made for dancing is excellent. For other purposes, I sometimes find it unsatisfactory, but then again, not always.

(It's probably all just a personal issue which can be solved by my: listening a little less often to the Latin music I like.)

Also, I like tangent the thread has gone in, even though I don't know what electro sounds like enough to completely follow.

Al Andalous (Al Andalous), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Technically I'm in bed right now, so if anything I type is lame or incoherent, it's okay. I just got back out of bed to order one of those box sets I've been wanting. If I am lying in bed thinking about it, I might as well just get the damn thing.

Al Andalous (Al Andalous), Saturday, 23 August 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

> of course you can TRY dancing to free improv...

see ppl dancing to the "Space" portion of a Dead show

H (Heruy), Saturday, 23 August 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)


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