How many songs constitute an EP?

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High and Low numbers? should have at least....?

3-7?????

― little rip, Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds right

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

3-7 sounds pretty right, although i've seen records containing 8 to 12 (short) songs described as an EP.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

A billion

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Lynskey is thinking of Anal Cunt's 6534 (or however many it was) song EP

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

An Ep is usually about 15-20 minutes worth of music devided however many times you like. An LP is usually about 30-40 minutes worth of music devided however you like.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

but there's always exceptions (such as the Dwarves album that doesn't quite reach 15 minutes and the many 3 or 4 track EPs i have that extend over half an hour or more). usually the exceptions exist because the artists are smartassed or self indulgent.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm putting out a 17 song EP that's just shy of 50 minutes long. Its just shy of 30 minutes long and then has 20 minutes of remixes tacked on.

― Xii (Xii), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"bonus tracks"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

At least 4 songs and no more than 5 songs, unless the additional songs are remixes. Two singles and two or three b-sides is an EP.

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Sigur Ros hit the jackpot with a 4 song ep (or was that a single?) that hit 46 minutes or so.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

old Pazz and Jop rules: An EP is a record with three or more songs (there's no maximum number, only a mininum), and less than 20 minutes of music. Over 25 minutes is an album; between 20 and 25, use your judgement. Two or one songs is a single. (Problem is, of course, that lots of records -- especially stopgap ones, live or outtakes etc -- with way more than 25 minutes have been MARKETED as EPs. Plus Jethro Tull's *Thick as a Brick* is an ALBUM with only one song, I think.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's cool that we've held on (tenuously) to these terms that are really meaningless now. EP meant Extended Playing and LP Long Playing (though in my mind extended should've been longer than merely long, but whatev) and refers to the way vinyl records rotate.
few vinyl records rotate anymore, but we still call 6-song CDs EPs. It's cute.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(*Thick As A Brick* = lots of songs made to appear as one track, rather ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I think 'Extended Play' referred to 'extended beyond the capacity of the SINGLE, aka the 45"

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, that's what I'm saying. most vinyl EPs are still 7 inches though, right? There's the occasional 10 incher (nudge, nudge), but it's not about the size so much as the groove (wink, wink)

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It bothers me a little, for no good reason, that the size of a CD has no relation to the amount of music on it (be it a lone 2:47 track, or 30 Beach Boys classix). I like those little tiny CDs you see sometimes. (But as you say, even with records, the groove has more to do with it than the diameter of the vinyl. The ideal form of analog media would have an exact relationship between its physical size and the amount of 'stuff' on it.)

― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(Like a reel of film.)

― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think an EP is a sampler, regardless of length. Remixes, long tracks, b-sides and whatever can push the length out but it'll still "feel" like an EP because it's a sampler, and often because it feels subordinate to the record that the band's about to put out/has just put out/will never get around to making but hey, here's some cool stuff from the sessions.

Of course the only deciding factor is a marketing decision, but I think they also have separate artistic goals and expectations - and yeah, with today's technology the length and number of tracks is irrelevant.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Funhouse Sessions -> 7 CDs = 1 EP.

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Thick as a Brick has only two tracks (on CD - one for each original side) but it's definitely an LP, because it has:

- The single ("ffffff fffff f ff ff ff fffff" - that's me imitating a flute)
- The noisy part (section two)
- The slow part (there's like part of side one that I remember going on forever before they get to:)
- The part that lands on the second greatest hits album, because the first collection used the single (that's section 4)
- The part you like but never hear anyone talk about (the last section of side one)
- The part you skip over (most of side two)
- The part that's just fucking annoying (most of side two)
- The big ending

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

an EP is simply something that isn't intended as an album, regardless of length. for whatever reasons.

the 'LP' is a demonically constricting format that often strangles your best ideas to death before you've even finished executing on them. the EP can be a great place to relax. I know 'ventolin' and 'ep7' were originally offered as split singles, but they still feel like EPs in their american combined versions.

I remember when 'neroli' came out, thinking: 'you fucker. this isn't an album. I just paid fifteen dollars for an single.'

― jl (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

'a single' yep

― jl (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

and the strangely relative thing is, 'thursday afternoon' is (obviously) an album.

basically I'm with Chris except I'd stress that it goes far beyond marketing calls, into artist's perogative. Goodiepal's 30 minute 'Narc Beacon' sounds like an album. Blectum's 'Snaunted Haus', same length, feels like an ep.

― jon leidecker (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

and the strangely relative thing is, 'thursday afternoon' is (obviously) an album.

― jl (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

fucking Internet Explorer does not like OS 10.2.7 and neither do I

― hello (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

too much coffee = thread-killing demeanor, and apologies.

just one more pretentious observation: 'orchestral sets' often outlasted 'symphonies', it was a matter of internal form. The rules of 'album form' are far vaguer than in classical, but there's an analogy in there somewhere.

― jon leidecker (Jon L), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Has the "mini-LP" concept totally died, then? I frequently see e.g. Lush's "Scar" or the 50 Foot Wave six-track debut referred to as EPs, but I think of them as mini-LPs. In these particular cases this may have something to do with their catalogue numbers being "MAD xxx", the "M" prefix in the 4AD catalogue standing for mini-LP, but I'm generally hesitant to call anything with more than 4-5 tracks an EP. Is there a UK/US difference in terminology here?

My short answer to what an EP is would be "a single with more than two tracks, where two or more of the tracks share top billing".

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 29 July 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

TS: mini-LPs vs. maxi-EPs

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 July 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Jordan's got the right idea. I think of the term "mini-LPs" as a very short lived trend started by major record labels in the 80's. Although I wonder too if this was more prevalent in the U.S. than elsewhere.

― Hydrochloric Shaved Weirds (Bimble...), Friday, 29 July 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

Hm, I actually meant the other way around – I seem to remember "mini-LP" being a pretty frequent term in UK music press in the last half of the 80s. And it didn't seem like a "trend" in any way – maybe the format (I dunno), but not the term?

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 29 July 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

>I think an EP is a sampler, regardless of length.<

I don't get this at all. Some samplers are box sets!!

U2's best album ever *Under a Blood Red Sky* was a mini-LP! (Though, since it was something like 27 minutes long, technically not an EP.)

― xhuxk, Friday, 29 July 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

>an EP is simply something that isn't intended as an album, regardless of length. for whatever reasons. <

This is completely wrong too, by the way! If something sounds like an album to me, and it's long enough, it's an album whether it was meant to be one or not. (So, do people think best-of albums are EPs now, too? Or at least B-side collections, like Elvis Costello's *Taking Liberties* or whatever? If so, that totally weirds me out.)

― xhuxk, Friday, 29 July 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

>most vinyl EPs are still 7 inches though, right?<

nope, not as far as I can tell. Even in the '80s, I think I heard more 12-inch EPs thatn 7-inch (or 10-inch) ones.

― xhuxk, Friday, 29 July 2005 22:07 (twenty years ago)

Sigur Ros hit the jackpot with a 4 song ep (or was that a single?) that hit 46 minutes or so.

That's nothing! Cabaret Voltaire's Three Mantras EP (so it's considered) was two songs and both were just over 20 minutes in length!

― When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a moray! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 30 July 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

I know the difference between a single and an EP comes from their vinyl incarnations. Singles only have a single song on side A, regardless of how many songs are on side B. An EP will have multiple songs on both sides.

The difference between EP and LP is a little more of a gray area.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

So is "Jar of Flies" an ep or an lp?

― MmVv, Saturday, 30 July 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

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