2003 VMAs under way.

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Someone please euthanize Kurt Loder already.

Weigh in.....ya know ya wanna.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Aguelera oversinging as usual.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna still pushing the lame duck "Hollywood" track. Ugh.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The opening was good for bombast, not much else.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone looked kind of confused about the whole thing.

And there was kissing.

― d k (d k), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Xtina brush her didjits across Madge's undercarriage?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

man y'all missed a really nice sunset in NYC today.

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Less music more lezzing.

― Leee (Leee), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

LEBRON IS WEARING THE WORST SHIRT EVER

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Who is that Oompa-Loopha sittin' next to Timberlake?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

but please, no lez music.

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Ashanti = Not really that attractive.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, hd to make the obvious joke.

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't see how Aguilera + Madonna + Britney can't be anything but anti-climactic at this point. It doesn't even have the resonance of Brandy + Monica.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

When are they gonna allow men to make out? Like say an Eminem + Justin + Jack White 3 way?

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Good to see Em taking the jibes in stride for a change.

Putting a parade of morons on live TV will get me sucked in every time.

― roger adultery, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Missy should get the award for putting that freaky white girl in the video alone.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Missy coming off like a moron

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Putting a parade of morons on live TV will get me sucked in every time.

roger narrow it down. Are you watching the VMAs or not?

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim is, like, stooooooned.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Lebron has the charisma and acting chops of a young Ghhheorghhhe Muresan!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

well that's what he gets for not skipping drama classes in college for easy As since he went straight to the NBA...

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh this is gonna suck

― Caitlin O'Neil (kurdtkobain205), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

the show? or our overly snarky commentary?

― hstencil, Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

WHOA! RADICAL! TONY HAWK! DUDE, they can't even not-read the teleprompter amusingly.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"Good Charlotte? More like a Mediocre Green Day!"

GOD BLESS CHRIS ROCK!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Good Charlotte? More like a mediocre Green Day." NICE!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

quit hatin on good old fashioned all american lezzing up for publicity. That moment was pure gold replayed on the tivo.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish I had MTV now!

― Sean (Sean), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

haha aw god chris rock is fucking funny as hell

― Caitlin O'Neil (kurdtkobain205), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Beyonce

fred91577: will she thank jesus?
Epicharmus: Nope.
fred91577: wow, she really has outgrown the lord.
Epicharmus: SHE'S BIGGER THAN JESUS!
fred91577: she can get jesus to intercede for you!
fred91577: she doesn't need his blessing! WE DO.
Epicharmus: Just look! She's got earrings the size of Miami! Of course she's bigger than Jesus.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(a-ha. video music awards, is wot it is?)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Lady Evanescence strikingly pastey!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

fred91577: evanescence and sean paul. INSPIRED!
fred91577: culture clash!
Epicharmus: Quirky!
fred91577: IRIE!
Epicharmus: They challenge preconceptions I didn't know I had!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

What? No Moby apology from Eminem?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

so, like, when did Eminem get so, gracious?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Whole lotta commercials.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "i still won't say anything bad about Eminem"

― Caitlin O'Neil (kurdtkobain205), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

aww god i feel so damn bad for johnny cash...:'(

― Caitlin O'Neil (kurdtkobain205), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Nelly's pal is an idiot. So is Nelly, actually.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeez, Johnny Cash is going to be Tony Bennett redux. Or something.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the fact that I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

This is gonna be another useless medley, right?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Christina looks like Medusa.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The kindest thing I can say is that at least she's not lip-synching....oh jeez, et tu Navarro?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, why else is she singing "Dirrty," which is sooo old now?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Epicharmus: You know, maybe MTV never really understood youth culture in the first place.
fred91577: i can't remember. i was too young at the time.
Epicharmus: I was there at the birth of the universe, Fred.
fred91577: was it like they say?
fred91577: was there a big bang and all?
Epicharmus: The face of Simon Le Bon shone like a million suns, Fred.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Navarro is such a guita-whore

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Holy crap, I just said the exact thing to Fred, Alex.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Outkast + Iggy Pop

Epicharmus: This works because we love them.
fred91577: exactly what i was going to say.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 28 August 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 151 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Ya heard one breathy R'n'B diva, ya heard'em all, but at least Tweet's production (by way of Timbaland) is a lot more inventive and interesting (Devo samples or not) than the sickly studio syrup that Irv Gotti Jackson-Pollacks all over Ashanti's lifeless warbling.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Can we refer to her as an 800-stone Go-rilla? No one knows what a stone is anymore...

― ModJ, Friday, 29 August 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and I almost forgot, her name is TWEET. That can get in the way of people wanting to identify with you. And Irv's production doesn't distract from the singer so much. Timba's expectably-inventive production makes Tweet more anonymous.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Cher may not be as good as the Brides Of Funkenstein, but she's sure as hell more memorable.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(So, uh......... has the entire Waldorf and Statler estate had a chance to speak up at this point?)

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

And Irv's production doesn't distract from the singer so much.

Perhaps it should in her case.

― Larcole (Nicole), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha. You guys soooo fucking enjoyed the VMAs. Just admit it.

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

chris rock said that rap-metal and fred durst were proof of the effectiveness of hip-hop's affirmative action policy for white people. durst plainly gave rock the finger as he walked onstage. the joke was pretty gentle compared to the ones at, say, r. kelly's expense.

rock wasn't very good, by his standards, but then the whole awards show seems to be about making the best of a general atmosphere of strained mediocrity. the lines that awards presenters are given have to be pretty tame, since most singers aren't capable of particularly complex comic timing. but the pretense that they are actually behind the lines, that they are delivering them in earnest, was frequently dropped, which saddens me. these shows are all about artifice, the idea that by goofing off or being indifferent you are exposing some evil machine or something.... to continue the anology i started upthread, it's like a school play. sure, it may be cheesy, but if everyone is too cool to lay any of themselves on the line for it, the whole thing falls down and who benefits from that?

again re. rock: mtv's thing is poking fun at itself, or celebrating itself, or otherwise neutral navel-gazing. it's exhausting, esp. around awards-show time.

i have no ethical objection to lip synching, just an aesthetic one. the whole novelty of beyonce performing at a show is that we actually get to see her show off her chops (and she does have chops, unlike some whose vocal weaknesses are revealed in live performances). lip synching means all she gets to show off are...well i'll leave the rest of that sentence for the calums of the world. she's a fantastic dancer, sure, but the choreography last night was kind of weak. sort of busy berkeley on ritalin.

finally, can someone convince me to think anything of mary j blige. she is constantly cited for being a survivor, although i've never heard her troubles more than just alluded to, i'll take it on faith that they were there. but her big songs seem so weak, and she makes up for it with ineffective showboating. i also find her bearing, her stage presence, kind of off-putting. she jumps around and stomps too much, she makes it look difficult when the job seems to call for the opposite.

my $0.02+

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

she makes it look difficult when the job seems to call for the opposite.

this sums up the problem with most dancing, showmanship these days. Instead of beauty, spontaneity and natural charm we're supposed to admire effort and obvious calculation.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Though I don't mind calculation as long as it's joyful and enthusiastic.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

mary j blige peforms as though it's some kind of hurculean effort just to sing, and we can breathe a sigh of relief after she finishes every verse. her stomps and bends and jumps are like the warm-up exercises of an olympic swimmer or something.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

miccio i enjoy agreeing with people and i agree with you here but there's a big neon sign in my cortex that reads, "good charlotte wtf?!?!"

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

supposed to admire effort and obvious calculation.

yeah, but good dancing should look effortless (ie. aguilera (the only part of the vma's i saw) has it completely wrong)(at least she's consistent in that her dancing/clothes/attitude/singing are all over the top)

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

good dancing SHOULD look effortless (I would expect Disco Stu to reaffirm this), and rarely does on MTV. Jennifer Lopez is a perfect example. Her style, like much of the post-Flashdance stuff, is more like aerobics than dancing.

The trick for getting Good Charlotte is to just listen (not see, listen) to the ALBUM as pop and stopping worrying about all the punk-or-not bullshit.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think there's a single prescription for good dancing. i think good dancing can look effort-ful complete with grunts and pauses for breath. but mary j blige doesn't even quite dance, really...it's more like she is just finding ways to express the extraordinary powers of will she must summon to sing....

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

miccio since when do i care about something being punk, or even rock? i think their songs are horrible, their vocals horrible, their lyrics horrible, their arrangements pedestrian.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

and i don't think you're even doing them much credit encouraging us to disassociate the visual presentation from the music, when they obv put so much effort into the former.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

then we don't agree on what qualifies as good vocals, lyrics, and arrangements. Woop-de-woop. I just see people including yourself post a lot more about the nonmusical faults people find in GC than about their music, which usally gets an evocative term like "bad" when people describe it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

they don't put nearly as much effort into their visuals as, say, Missy Elliott, and yet somehow people can discuss her music without saying "SHE USES KIDS AS DANCERS! EGAD!"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the only nonmusical aspect of g.c. i've posted about is the lead singer's horrifying habit of waving his arms constantly in videos.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't find missy's videos at all objectionable, sometimes i quite like them. i also like her sense of style. it is consonant with her music, just as i find g.c.'s sense of style consonant with *their* music.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and just in case I get blamed for derailing this thread, I never bring up Good Charlotte or Limp Bizkit. Usually I'm talking about something else and somebody says "oh whatever you like Limp Bizkit/Good Charlotte." One can only ignore the haters so much.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i think good dancing can look effort-ful complete with

i agree, but the effort-ful dancing i dislike is purely stylistic excess.

haha anthony...

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

just listen (not see, listen) to the ALBUM as pop

But as such it's stinky.

The whole Tweet/Ashanti sidetrack bemuses me. Tweet's name IS sorta 'eh?'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Though I don't mind calculation as long as it's joyful and enthusiastic. -- Anthony Miccio

Like an MTV Accountancy Video Show? Hey, not a bad idea :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

True Life: I'm a Math Major

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(but then again i guess it wouldn't be mtv without stylistic excess)

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

My problem with the VMA's brand of heavily-scripted spontaneity is that when it goes awry (and since it's live TV, stuff WILL go awry), it always seems more pathetic and embarrassing than when things go awry during more staid affairs like, say, the Oscars.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not excess per se, it's lack of facility + imagination. if you have a bunch of long-legged dancers in matching outfits, find something for them to do besides line up and do little dips.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd probably argue the WORST act I've seen at the MTV music awards dancewise has been TLC. Easily the most stitled and emotionless move-busting I've seen. Best is probably that giant tribute to Biggie deal Puffy did. One dancer practically did a ten foot jump and Sting, who Puffy totally made his BITCH, was forced to stand perfectly still. It's a sad sad thing when Puffy seems to have more genuine expressive dancing than everybody else at a show.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

oh wait, the best dancing ever was that Tatu thing at the movie awards last year. Either that or the Spike Jonze/Fatboy Slim ensemble.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Sting, who Puffy totally made his BITCH, was forced to stand perfectly still.

Ever see Sting dance? Believe you me, him standing still was No accident.

Also, Sting doesn't need to dance.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

why didn't they have mya dance? she's a trained dancer, you know.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

haha reminds me of that part in the jewel video where it's obvious she can't dance well b/c they have her sort of bounce around while the professionals dance *around* her.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Mya at least looks good dancing, unlike, say, Beyonce, who looks like she's always about to topple over like a wobbly wedding cake.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

my god, Alex, please tell me your statement about the unnecessaryness of Sting dancing was based on his astounding artistic glory. Please.

Beyonce looks good dancing.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i just wish they could have her dance in such a way so she would still be able to sing live. she seemed so consumed by her dance routine that she couldn't even lip synch properly.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Beyonce looks ridiculous dancing.

Anthony, go watch the video for "Don't Stand So Close To Me" (not the `86 remix) and tell me if you think Sting's giving Twyla Tharp a run for her money.

Morever, Sting didn't make his name as one of these all-singin'/all-dancin' types. He sings. That's what he does. You want juggling? Go watch clowns.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

and rather watch him play fifth banana in a Puff Daddy EXTRAVAGANZA with an uncomfortable look on his face, thank you very much.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

typo. I'd, not and.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

You may, but your impression that Puffy somehow reduced him to some sort've pasty eunuch in that performance baffles me. If anything, I'd say Sting was doin' the man a favor....and it leant an air of legitimacy, credibility and genuine sympathy. I'd go so far as to say it was a classy move on Sting's part.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's compromise: Sting was doing a favor for Puffy by being his pasty eunuch. He totally didn't have to do it, but he was classy enough to provide an air of legitimacy, credibility and genuine sympathy as Puffy's bitch.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

classy or crassy?

― hstencil, Friday, 29 August 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

does p. diddy owe him a living?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

does notorious b.i.g.'s senseless death owe p. diddy to write a crappy song about it?

― hstencil, Friday, 29 August 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

beyonce's hair extensions = performance of the night.

i hope jessica simpson gets that 'the price is right' gig she was auditioning for during the commercial breaks.

― maura (maura), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, Sting doesn't need to dance.

No, he needs to retire.

― Larcole (Nicole), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(stence that was a crass joke.)

i like how nick + jessica were banished to the outdoors for the night, where their self-promotion could appear all the more brazen and shameless.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

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