C/D: Pseudo-lesbian kisses between pop stars for shock value

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Anyone see the beginning of the MTV Video awards last night? A full-on smooch between Madonna and Britney as the 'big surprise'.

DUD. Insulting.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Taking sides: that vs. Michael Jackson/Lisa Marie Presley

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, I missed this thread, but this is more specific. I probably should have contributed there.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

If neither slipped the other the tongue, then it doesn't count.
Besides...isn't Madonna old enough to be Britney's MOM?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

But Custos does that not only make it hotter!

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it was lame though how they panned to Justin Timberlake's reaction in lieu of showing the Xtina/Madge smooch...I can't really explain why though.*

*yes I can it's cuz I wanted more fakey lezzing up

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

this just proves that Madonna is so over

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.

just hearing those words has got me in a sweat.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the whole lezzing up for publicity thing is a bit old though and dull, and kinda pointless (if occassionaly hot). i mean how much further can they take this thing? fistings?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Fucking absolute classic. Loved it. Cheered it on. And in my world, Madonna will never be "over."

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe they are trying to appeal to an indie audience

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

But Custos does that not only make it hotter!
Euuuwwww. No. It's like:
"C'mon, Britney, let me take off my support pantyhose and you can lick my liver spots." says Madonna before her false teeth fall out.

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.
Anything to further her career, nick. Anything to further her career.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

why oh why do people who are only doing [__________] to be fashionable still carry on doing so long after it is no longer fashionable?

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Odd how Britney seemed to completely vanish from the proceedings aftewards.....much like her career these days.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

wow this thread is
statler waldorf massive versus
horny teenagers

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The only shocking thing on the awards show was the snippet of Asia's "Only Time Will Tell" before announcing the nominees for Best Video.

― BrianB, Friday, 29 August 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

So basically women should only get it on within their age group? Holy vanilla-city, Batman.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, mark s and Bob Shaw are voicing my thoughts.

The mother-daughter implications either make it better or worse. Still dealing with that.

They should have had Liz Phair up there; she would have willingly participated, and it would have given further depth to the career-ending feel.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

rock'roll = middle-aged men standing as far away from each other as possible

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not voicing yr thoughts, SL, i'm voicing the contradiction in yr "thoughts": yr hostility to same-sex kissing — ie it's only acceptable as a "radical art gesture" — is as silly as custos's kneejerk ageism

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

rock'roll = middle-aged men standing as far away from each other as possible

mark s wins ilx forever, thanks for playing everybody

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this mean the most radical rock gesture would be for Van The Man to snog his tour guitarist onstage with tongues?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ok i just realised how i cd also read yr thread question as making the same point as me after all

(ie the insult = not the "fakeness" but the "big moment"-ness, when it is actually something which should just be considered routine and unhottly everywhere)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

no Tom a rock artist could fuck a shovel onstage and it would go down in legend and lore

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

though I hate to go into details Ronan I must tell you that the scenario you cite does NOT go over well in Sligo

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Shovels are in short supply there.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the great shovel famine

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

thats basically it. its not a big moment at all. its normal behaviour. yet for 2 popstars, its a big deal. i mean is the world really still shocked by a lesbian kiss. i havent seen the clip yet, so i can't really comment much more than that. im not saying a woman to woman kiss can't be hot, but the thought of madonna and britney kissing in some supposedly grand jesture, i find that pretty unsexy.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

but if everything is unhottly there'd be no reason to watch TV anymore!

― dave q, Friday, 29 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Who says it is a grand gesture of anything? Maybe they are really a couple. Why does no one else think about this? Except for me, when I masturbate, I guess.

― Ally-zay (mlescaut), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna could kiss ME and I wouldn't find it sexy - she would of course

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does no one else think about this? Except for me, when I masturbate, I guess.
now thats hott

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Melissa Etheridge was asked about TaTu and she said something to the effect of "The fact that these two girls are using homosexuality IN ORDER TO SELL albums is fantastic." Basically, it's about fucking time we can "profit" from being dykes. I could give a shit if it's a "gesture." And Ally, I share your jerk-off fodder. If that were me Madonna was groping, I'd have masturbation fodder for the rest of my life. Sex would be unnecessary.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

grand jesters are totally hot

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ok i just realised how i cd also read yr thread question as making the same point as me after all

(ie the insult = not the "fakeness" but the "big moment"-ness, when it is actually something which should just be considered routine and unhottly everywhere)

Yes, this is what I mean. Same-sex kissing is as good as all kissing. But for shock value, when totally false, it is a dud. It's not even shocking.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont care if they're profiting from it, i just find the thought of madonna and britney kissing profoundly unsexy (that said i havent seen the clip yet)! and im a guy who finds pint glasses sexy! and sometimes the fact that it is such a grand jesture can take the wind out of the sails of hottness. like the sex scene in the matrix reloaded - that was crap, cos it was supposed to be so big and meaningful, but wheres the love? i couldnt feel the romance. im not opposed to people making grand statements of jestures, they can be very powerful, but madonna and britney, i don't feel it.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

But for shock value, when totally false, it is a dud
OTM.

Con -fucking -trived.
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/08/29/arts/29mtv.184.jpg

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

it's being boring is in that case a tremendous sex-pol victory and should be celebrated not attacked

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

if britney juggled 4x4 jeeps people here would still be whinging about how contrived it was.

lets face it most of you are starting from the finish line here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

jeezus why have i been spelling gesture wrong all thru this thread.

yeah after seeing that picture im definately still on the DUD side. id be more turned on by Barney the dinosaur bukkake.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Same-sex kissing is as good as all kissing.

I can't tell if you're nuts or the most socially advanced person I've ever encountered.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh and Ronan OTM. Why am I bothering?

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Odd how Britney seemed to completely vanish from the proceedings aftewards.....much like her career these days.
She ran back to her trailer on a mad quest for mouthwash.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what makes a kiss pseudo lesbian aswell, you'd swear the people moaning about this were staunchly principled pro-lesbian types when really that very thought is psychotic

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

yes custos the person here who is hostile to and frightened of lesbians is of course britney

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeanne Fury, I don't get it. This kind of minstrel-show kissing gives homophobics an out - a way to feel "OK with it", but still deeply discomforted by any show of real passion by two women (or men). It widens the gulf between the two feelings. I would think it's insulting. Of course, I don't know shit firsthand, and set me straight if so.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Who said anything about hostility toward lesbians?
I just don't think Madonna is sexy anymore.
(The gap between her two front teeth keeps growing and growing and growing...)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i pretty much agree with southern lights there. where the love gone eh?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't tell if you're nuts or the most socially advanced person I've ever encountered.

Probably somewhere in between, closer to nuts. What's so radical about my statement? Again, I don't get it.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does there have to be love or passion when people kiss onstage?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 51 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

fuck, my spelling is bad today.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

M = Madonna
B = Britney
C = Christina

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

mb, mc for the build up and bc for the climax.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

How did I totally miss the Madonna/Christina kiss? Did the cameras cut away right then or something? (Camera work last night was really shitty all around, except I suppose for all the dramatic rushing and swooping around during Good Charlotte's performance, which almost made it look like there was something more going on than just another dumbass band.)

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah I thought why was only the mb talked abt here? was xtina an onlooker?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

They decided to pan to Justin's reaction (hoping he might cry them a river eh?) while X and Madge smooched.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

So what was his reaction? Yawn?

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

He sort of grinned uncomfortably.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think he looked that uncomfortable, after all hes still doing really well at AC Milan, i think Rebrovs reaction would have been more telling

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there three women less sexually alluring in the world than Madonna, Britney and C. Aguilera?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yr moms

― autovac (autovac), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

video link: http://www.donpixel.com/video/?v=030829102409

― gspm, Friday, 29 August 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna saying "yo" repeatedly at the end of the clip = white people from the midwest are back to re-destroy the culture they forgot to finish appropriating when they pulled over to buy a postcard at the American Museum of Spam

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I get it now.

― J (Jay), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the tatu kiss was much hotter. if i wanna see two chicks lezzing it up (regardless of whether theyre pop stars or not) they gotta convince my imagination that they're gonna be gettin' biz-ee at the end of the night.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

check out the shit-eating grin on Brit!

http://www.fmqb.com/site/MusicNews/ArtistPics03/VMA_kiss0829.jpg

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

She's like all, "I wish that were me!"

― Leee (Leee), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic: although not classic for the already damning thread title. Jeanne OTM.

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that xtina is getting completely ignored in the coverage of this (even tho she kissed madonna immediately afterward) makes me like her even MORE than i already do.

― will g. (will g.), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(ilm's relationship with female musicians in so far down the crapper it's lapping the shoreline outside the waste treatment center shocker.)

on the "You are Free" thread i didnt agree with this, but maybe now i do. these threads do really generate some bizarre reactions (and i do include myself in this, i am certainly somewhat guilty myself), hmm.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"musicians"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

SL, I definitely see where you're coming from. There was a time not too long ago when I would have agreed with you. Of course, I would love it that much more if say, two bona fide lesbians had a chance to do something like this. But that ain't gonna happen...yet. When Melissa Etheridge pointed it out that even the smallest hint of girl-love was completely unthinkable in the past -- something you HID because it would ruin your career if people ever knew -- and now that very same thing is being used to HELP your career, well, it sort of shed a new light on it for me. Sincerity be damned -- just let us in the door already.

jeanne makes a damn good point, but i'm TOTALLY not gonna be happy until butch women are allowed to kiss each other on tv.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 30 August 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

john that's waaaaaaay beneath you.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 30 August 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

jeanne makes a damn good point, but i'm TOTALLY not gonna be happy until butch women are allowed to kiss each other on tv.

Maybe when we actually start seeing sexualized butch women on TV?

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Gina Gershon to thread.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ummmmm

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Bill Maher says: Lesbian kisses now mean one of three things: 1) No one's paying attention to you at the bar, 2) No one's watching your sitcom, or 3) No one's buying your shitty album.

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

4) Kevin Smith is directing the movie.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Xtina is totally my fave of the three. Did anyone else catch her on 106th and Park? Girl's so *sweet*.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Bill Maher is a well-documented misogynist fucko who deserves everything that's coming to him.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I've loved Xtina more for ages, she seems to try so much harder

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

just risin' to the occasion j

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't know whether conventionally attractive famous women kissing each other on tv makes lesbianism more visible or more INvisible. i suspect it contributes to the idea that only some kinds of lesbianism are valid, like lipstick lesbianism. i'm not saying that people like madonna and britney should take this into account, i'm saying that i'm not going to throw praise on an action, the effects of which are so contentious. the tv show bad girls is way more subversive, sexy and exciting, and i'm well aware that that show has its fair share of middle-aged men watching it for reasons i find questionable - my dad and my workmates being prime examples.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Sunday, 31 August 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone seriously believe that Madonna or Britney would sell anything like the numbers of records they have (note the past tense), if they had genuinely been lesbians? How many gay superstars are there exactly?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

There's three more today.

I did love the first reaction shot from Justin, before the kissing: facing straight ahead, eyes flicking over to the camera, "you're not getting shit out of me, MTV".

Missy's outfit at the end was bizarre: she looked like she should've been in blackface or something.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone seriously believe that Madonna or Britney would sell anything like the numbers of records they have (note the past tense), if they had genuinely been lesbians?

You all need to tune into the VH1 special "Totally Gay." To make a long story short, I'll just give an example. Daniel Bettingfield's (sp?) record company wanted to market his music to the gay audience so they HIRED gay consultants who specialize in this sort of thing (note to self: switch careers). One of Daniel's songs was included on some gay comp cd that was distributed by some gay magazine... and wouldn't you know, that song went to #3 on the Billboard charts shortly thereafter.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

... which proves what exactly?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

that gay people also like music

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

that daniel beddingfield is not gay but he had gay stylists and in the end this may or may not have sold him more records, some of which were bought by gay people, and some by people who knew some gay people but werent gay themselves, and some people who weren't sure of what they were, not to mention some other people.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out."
IMHO, she also put out catchier music after she came out of the closet. of course, im not denying that the media frenzy surrounding her lesbianism didn't get her a shitload more publicity, but that coinciding with more radio-friendly music didn't hurt either.

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

... which proves what exactly?

That appealing to the gay community might actually help one's career.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Me: Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out."

Felcher: IMHO, she also put out catchier music after she came out of the closet.

Definately, but coming out wasn't the kiss of death, where no matter how good the music was a large number of people wouldn't buy it (who otherwise would). There were no John Lennon-type record burnings, etc.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it might but theres counterexamples too jeanne. george michael has practically dropped off the face of the earth since he was outed.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't George Michael already on his way out? And getting outed via being busted soliciting sex in a public restroom is an especially sales-unfriendly way to go.

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

stuff like "fast love" pre the outing was pretty popular here. does anyone really give a fuck how gm was outed? i heard more "wooohooo! hes out!" than "ew that dirty fucker" at the time, but then i had my foot firmly entrenched in the gay community back then.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Kinky!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

What was weird to me was how dissonant it felt. In the MTV world timing becomes finer and finer and finer. They picked the wrong period. Where periods are measured in seconds.

And besides all that, the consequences of competitive sexual liberalism becoming entangled with competitive economic liberalism are unhappiness for the underclass majority in both cases, - I read that anyway.

― m.s (m .s), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

S/D celebrity homoerotic kisses you would like to see

britney and xtina - but only in their blink-and-you'll-miss-it curvy phases. i have my fingers crossed for a sam, pippin and merry ORGY in "return of the king".

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Call me when they dump a boob out.

― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

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