"Creative Misunderstandings"

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A reference was made in a piece of required reading (for a mus. hist. class) to "creative misunderstandings," in music listening and in subsequent performance, in reference in this case, to cultural/social differences between performers/listeners.
I liked the phrase, cuz I often get the sense (I dunno how true it is) that a "misunderstanding" of another social group's music is inevitably heavily criticized, and this seemed to paint a much more optimistic picture... doesn't seem automatically condemning or anything (like talk of appropriation and whatnot).
Any thoughts on this? Any famous positive cases of musical misunderstandings? (how about Afrikaa Bambataa hearing Kraftwerk as party music?)
Dunno if this'll get much response, and maybe it's phrased awkwardly, but I wanted to try my hand at starting a thread (I read and enjoy this site a lot), something I've been a bit too intimidated to do.

(by the way, I'm a 4th year at UCLA... majoring in design/media arts, and just about finished with a minor in music history... if asked I would say, out of habit, that my fav. band is devo... but there are other contenders... was a member of the pitchfork board for quite awhile, but somehow lost interest (was never really into indie music, and thus didn't share common ground as far as listening habits were concerned) anyway, my taste in music has generally broadened a bit over time)

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 03:55 (twenty-one years ago)

how about Afrikaa Bambataa hearing Kraftwerk as party music?

Hmmmm....well, this begs the question of how Kraftwerk expected their music to be enjoyed. Did they expect people to listen to their significantly rhythmic music without feeling any inclination to dance? And surely, if you can dance to it, doesn't that make it "party music"?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 4 September 2003 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

that might have been a poor example... but I think their music was meant to carry some kinda feeling overpowering technology and dehumanization (though still be catchy of course) that Banbaataa didn't hear so much as the groove.
Maybe?
How about this as a restatement of the question:
Are there any great examples of a group or artist aiming for a place within a certain tradition/style/genre whatever and somehow misunderstanding or misinterpreting things so spectacularly that they came up with something wholly new and awesome?

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

pretending kraftwerk were all about the depressive horrors of 'overpowering technology and dehumanization' instead of dancing and playing around with synths is like when early 90s rock critics tried to say the chronic and doggystyle were 'bleak chronicles of gangsta life' instead of dancing and playing around with synths

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

you definitely go to art school. kraftwerk are so reverent it's jaw dropping to even think you missed the boat on that one. take the pomo out of your butt and throw it back in the brillo box where it belongs.

whodat?, Friday, 5 September 2003 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you definitely go to art school. kraftwerk are so reverent it's jaw dropping to even think you missed the boat on that one. take the pomo out of your butt and throw it back in the brillo box where it belongs.

This directed at me? I hope not... but in any case I already admitted that maybe the Krafterk (a band I like and find *fun* to listen to) example was awkward. Some explanation: the idea that Afrikaa Bambaataa's (more that I like to listen to) adaptation of Kraftwerk was a "misreading" was from something I overheard when walking into a history of electronic dance music class. I thought the idea was interesting then and I still do, that is, that someone can essentially "misinterpret" a genre or style or even particular artist and come up with something totally different and awesome in its own right.
Anyway that's the question as I intended it. I'm still interested in responses to it... cool examples and whatnot. Not *quite* as interested in dismissive insults.

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(if I misunderstood, ignore)

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

wait... back to Kraftwerk... describing them as "dancing and playing around with synths" seems suitable I guess. I mean they were definitely a fun band.
So then subquestion: Did Afrikaa Bambaataa creatively misinterpret Kraftwerk, or was the prof. looking for connections/interesting anecdotes that weren't there?

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

and another subquestion: does anyone really care about any of this? is this thread too stilted, etc.?

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i understand what you're getting at but it's difficult to think of examples without knowing exactly what the artist in question was aiming at in the first place..

the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Think it's an interesting but simple process that you're making needlessly gooey by using the words "misunderstand" and "misinterpret" which imply "hearing something that isn't there" (forget whether it was "meant" to be there or not -- who the hell knows?).

Music plays. Most people don't perceive surprising buried content.

Talented listener/musician comes along, hears surprising buried content. Makes own music that points out content.

Original music plays again. Now most people hear still-surprising and formerly buried content.

Nobody's "misinterpreting" anything. Someone has just uncovered something in a batch of music. Maybe even the originators were not aware of it -- but what difference does that make? It's still in there.

Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

well.. I don't mean to confuse the thing with bad semantics.... I hope the question can be interesting anyway.
Was reading the Say Something Interesting About the Beatles thread and thought that the following kinda was in the spirit of what I was getting at:

What I have a problem with is when the English try to step outside their national character and copy other people's culture and get it wrong.

Sixties British bands worth listening to = those who tried to play African-American music, but did it badly I.e., not just the Beatles, but also the Stones, the Who, the Kinks, Beck-era Yardbirds, Syd-era Floyd, etc.
-- mt (current31...), January 21st, 2002 3:00 PM.


Sixties British bands not worth listening to = those who played African-American music well. I.e., anything involving Eric Clapton or Steve Winwood.

Which bunch (if any) "got it right" depends on what the meaning of "got it right" is. Probably irrelevant, in any case.

-- Tadeusz Suchodolski (llamasfu...), January 21st, 2002 3:00 PM.

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:57 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops... I messed up the way I credited the statement with the poster... the first line in italics is mt... the following 3 lines (indented) are by Tadeusz Suchodolski

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

so... anyway, I can see why to some the question might seem irrelevant in the first place (who cares if they "got it right," to quote above)... but it still interested me.
And the fact that others have posted in regards to some bands having gotten it "right" (as opposed to "wrong" I guess) shows that those kinds of judgements of success come up around here right?

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

(trying to keep the thead alive)

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry dude i still cant get over you smugly assuming bam was a total moron who 'missed the point' of the genuises in kwerk

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

that wasn't what I meant

Brandon Mitchell (A.H.), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone who dances to "love will tear us apart" to thread

the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

dance to 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'? That's impossible, the song is so funny it usually makes people fall about busting their guts in hysterical laughter!

dave q, Friday, 5 September 2003 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

hey dave I went to freaky trigger night and ppl were dancing to that and they were serious abt it too.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, and welcome to the boards brandon :-)

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

That bassline always cracks me up

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, welcome Brandon, and ignore snide people called anon.

The theme of Creative Misunderstandings is actually very close to an article I'm writing right now for an, ahem, 'edgy style mag', so I want to hack this thread slightly with some questions on the subject. If anyone has some interesting answers, please send them to me at

nickmomus@hotmail.com

1. Have you awarded yourself 'the right to be wrong'?

2. How do you increase the chance of accidents in your
work?

3. Has something you've created struck others -- because
of its sheer originality -- as 'wrong' when they first see it?
What did they say?

4. The phrase 'margin of error' means people forgive you
for the purple lapel because they really like the black jacket
it's on. But are you the kind of person who immediately
wants to expand that lapel until it's the whole jacket?

5. Tell me about a catastrophic mistake you made -- or
nearly made -- that didn't help you one bit.

6. Tell me about a happy accident or deliberate error that
made you stronger or broke you through an impasse.

7. Are some cities better than others for living a 'mistaker
lifestyle'?

8. Which artist or creator made your favourite mistake, and
what is it?

9. If you could go back in time and make one mistake you
failed to make when you had the chance, what would it be?

10. Is wrong the new right?

Momus (Momus), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

11. oh... yeah... well, you know... wrong is the new right, you know... i asked gerard, and... yeah... sure... kraftwerk had nice shoes....of course... yeah...

whodat?, Friday, 5 September 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...
Well...better get this straught. This is the reason why CREATIVITY is called what it is, cus it doesn't mean PHOTOCOPY, so by any chance it turns out something else good or better, then it's all good and better tagged as Another Bad Creation...Thank you ladies and gentlemen...Let real heads not be too strng to destroy the growth of a new development.

sigh, Friday, 26 May 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)


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