c/d: revenge of lone white guy

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this will be in honor of mr. reynolds, who has been catching some undeserved flack round these parts lately.

what do you all think of the new alien ant farm video they've been showing? for those of you who don't know what i'm talking about, it involves the band's guerilla-style takeover of an l.a. rooftop for an afternoon concert. yes, just like in that u2 video. okay, but here's the rub - they time it so that it's during the BET music awards. and so the video features dozens of bemused black celebrities and civilians at first gawking, and then, won over by AAF's obvious charms, awkwardly bopping to the pop-nu-metal beat.

am i correct in perceiving weird racial politix?

vahid (vahid), Friday, 5 September 2003 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

new antswers

vahid (vahid), Friday, 5 September 2003 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't find AAF's charms so "obvious," actually.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 5 September 2003 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i get it. this is an off-week for arguing about race.

vahid (vahid), Friday, 5 September 2003 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

nu metal has earned the right to engage with bet et al after 90s rock, alt-rock, grunge whatever, completely ignored anyone besides middle class whites, for christs sake this is a video for a band who blew up from an mj song, theyre like the rap-rock timberlake (not to be confused w blackeyedpeas, the rap-rock band who did a song with timberlake)

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

well spell it out for me then: is disrupting the show from on high "engagement" or "confrontation"?

vahid (vahid), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you accusing Alien Ant Farm of being racists because they disrupted a BET awards ceremony?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I doubt he's going that far. But isn't there a perceived racial subtext to a white group that appeals to a white audience making a video that's basically putting down a black awards show? (Yes, BET and hip-hop also appeal to whites, and I'm sure there are black people who love AAF.)

It's not racist, per se, but it is racial - just like there's a racial subtext often found when mall-punks or metalheads or Skynrd fans talk shit about hip-hop (if that still happens today).

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i dont think alien ant farm are out to destroy rnb!!! smooth criminal, yall!!

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ie it would be racist if a pre 00s rock band did it but with nu metal its like teasing your cousin, its all fam

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

That argument ("They listen to [x] music, they can't harbor [y] tendencies" - racist, sexist, etc. as you choose) fails when I think of all the racists I've encountered who listen to rap.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

its not just 'listening'

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

and i think as a music act who are making a music video abt storming a music awards show you would imagine their supposed racism would start with the MUSIC perhaps??

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Why not? Do you think all the rap-metal acts have some deep connection to hip-hop culture?

Of course, your argument still doesn't hold in AAF's case. "Smooth Criminal" was a pop hit, with little racial connection, and they're a more straight-ahead metal band elsewhere (from what I understand).

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 5 September 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

and i think as a music act who are making a music video abt storming a music awards show you would imagine their supposed racism would start with the MUSIC perhaps??

What do the BET Awards represent?

Why, it couldn't be the MUSIC played on BET, could it.

ie Good-old whitebread metal-punk taking on that dastardly hip-hop/R&B, showing them black folks how to have a good time "with real instruments."

Is it racist? No, but then, you're the only person arguing "racist."

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

well i agree it would be suspect if the bet awards ppl were pissed at the band but they LIKE them!! its a vision of racial harmony, and an accurate one, unless youre saying black ppl dont like rock?? i mean, everybody in hiphop to thread!!

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost!! yes rap metal acts do have deep connections to rap culture, all the guest verses and riff borrowing and remix comps etc etc, would you be suprised at all if ANYONE from the bet music awards guested on an alien ant farm song?

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean vs tom petty or whatever, fight the real enemy man

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

well i agree it would be suspect if the bet awards ppl were pissed at the band but they LIKE them!! its a vision of racial harmony, and an accurate one, unless youre saying black ppl dont like rock?? i mean, everybody in hiphop to thread!!

Right, convincing the black people of the error of their hip-hop/R&B ways, showing them the light of metal (which is predominantly white in musicians, fanbase, and cultural assumption).

"Black music can't be as good/fun/cool as white music!"

If it was just "stop listening to that chart-rap/chart-R&B and listen to us!" - the logical target would be TRL or the VMAs, right? Why the BET awards?

xpost!! yes rap metal acts do have deep connections to rap culture, all the guest verses and riff borrowing and remix comps etc etc, would you be suprised at all if ANYONE from the bet music awards guested on an alien ant farm song?
You've got no argument from me that some, if not many, do. But not all. There's absolutely no reason that a rap-metal band has to have any kind of connection to hip-hop culture (outside of the sounds).

I'd almost guarantee that there's some racist label in the world putting out white supremacist rap-metal. Limp Skrewdriver.

i mean vs tom petty or whatever, fight the real enemy man
I dunno, a lot of classic rockers work with black artists. John Mellencamp had a single with Meshell N'dgocello (I know I just butchered that, but I'm half-asleep), Eric Clapton's album with BB King (and Clapton was known for some racist views/comments at one time, wasn't he?)

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

if you want to give me any evidence that alien ant farm think nu metal is 'superior' to mainstream rap/rnb then id like to see it, i think its more like, hey black ppl we love yall and yalls music so check out what we do too!! the only ppl smug enough to think their music is better than current rap/rnb are old rocker dudes like clapton and wack undie mcs

trife (simon_tr), Friday, 5 September 2003 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the idea that nu-metal isn't a genre aimed at middle class white males....

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 5 September 2003 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

1) trife is right that nu-metal & rap (r&b, no: nobody here is seriously calling "smooth criminal" an r&b song, are they? hope not) have a sort of kissing-cousins relationship (which annoys us metal purists, because the connection is actually between rap and metal: nu-metal just piggybacked in by virtue of its youth)

2) however

3) the storyboard for this video as it's been presented (NB I haven't seen it) IS full of some interesting racial politics: it may be a commentary on the sanctimony of the orig. U2 rooftop video (pls. no "Let It Be" mentions thanx), but whether it is or not, the band-on-the-rooftop presents itself as outsiders, people not welcome at the party. That the party-goers groove to the band-on-the-rooftop's stuff is an indictment of the party's host, to belabor a dying analogy. Demographically speaking, Alien Ant Farm is Music For White Kids (nb trife, preemptively: yes! I'm sure they have some black fans!), which, from the sounds of it, is being offered up in the scenario described above as "music the BET audience would love...IF BET [and by extension, the culture that supports BET] WOULD LET THEM HEAR IT!!!"

In other words, this is pretty much just rockism in some fancy new clothes, let's hear it for rock & roll everybody

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 5 September 2003 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If Alient Ant Farm had crashed the VMAs instead of the BET Awards, people wouldn't assume they were crashing. It'd be just like when Avril performed outside at the pre-show last year. The BET Awards is probaby the only Awards show Alien Ant Farm would look even slightly rebellious crashing. Which, of course, is what they're going for: slightly rebellious. And unfortunately the only way they can do that is by using race in a way I don't like at all. The friendly way for nu-metal people to approach black music is to do like Fred Durst making cameos in Lil Bow Wow and 8Ball videos: just show up in the right places, smile, and don't get in the goddam way. Alien Ant Farm is making a severely misguided move at being confrontational in a half-assed friendly way (I think; I haven't seen the video either). If white artists making white music are going to approach black music/culture, they pretty much have to do it on the terms of black music/culture or come off looking like asshole chumps.

Also, Alien Ant Farm is really, really bad.

And I which this was a thread about the actual lone white guy in hip-hop videos so I could mention the Iconz' "Get Crunked Up".

Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 5 September 2003 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, Alien Ant Farm is really, really bad.

The bottom line, really.

In terms of the vid, which I too have still yet to see, I don't think it's all that calculated. I think they probably just figured it was an absurd gesture and went with it. I doubt their was any intent to appear disrespectful or confrontational.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 5 September 2003 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

the best example of this is the r kelly video in which the lone white guy is pushed into a throng of black people in a club and encouraged to dance. and obviously every one is laughing at him because he's a shit dancer but i doubt they're laughing at him cos he's white and a shit dancer. it's more like what trife said, the black people are saying "hey white person you might not of realised it but you can feel our music as well look just give it a try let da vibes get u bredren"

sean g, Friday, 5 September 2003 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

didn't michael jackson kinda invent nu-metal? (i mean, sonically but also emotionally) ("everyone is mean to me/despite my wealth i am alone/destroy destroy") (ok worst attempt to mimic a nu-metal lyric ever but i'm tired i've been rewriting bad arts crit all day gimme a break!!)

(haha this wd explain why alex hates it!!)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to mention the R.Kelly vid too (wherein gawky white gent with glasses is pushed to the fore and suddenly succumbs to the groove in his own distinctive albeit inexplicable way). I never regarded that as them laughing at him, but rather as some sort've declaration of the universality of Kelly's groove. Even seemingly funkless white boys are helpless to resist.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 5 September 2003 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i want the BET awards to have a nu-metal category next year. trife - start the letter-writing campaign!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 5 September 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i want michael jackson to win it!! ilm this is yr task!!

mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

mark did you ever hear mj's cover of "careering"?*

gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

(*might not actually exist.)

gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

IN MY HEART IT EXISTS!!! *runs around screaming*

mark s (mark s), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

though I really enjoyed their video "Movies," there was some weird racial subtexts in it too, involving a black guy's afro and a random shot of an asian guy eating popcorn with chopsticks. Then again, they make fun of a "metal dude" in it, so maybe they're mocking archetypes rather than trying to say the race is inferior or something. The movie Bad Boys II indulged in a lot of this race-baiting-that-might-not-be-racism.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 5 September 2003 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

this simply further proves they ARE hiphop!! the four elements of which are described in probaly my fav sterl post ever as "frontin', backpackin', navelgazin', race-baitin'"

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...
revive?

8, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

i love this thread. ethan drops classic science, jess and mark pop in with perfectly-timed comic relief.

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

i totally forgot i started this thread (ethan owns it, though).

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)


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