Let's talk about how great Aesop Rock's new album is

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I feel like he's finally lived up to his potential. What a great record! May indeed redeem Def Jux, whose recent (self-imposed) slump (smash brothers, etc) had me a bit worried

roger adultery, Friday, 5 September 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I think a lot of "abstract" lyricism is useless if it doesn't conjure up some sort of general theme or a vague pseudo-narrative, and that's what Aes is good at; even when he's dropping the opaque shit I can get the sense that he's steering me towards things that I have to work to unravel with a few really choice exclamations as reward. I'm not quite ready to call him, say, a rap Captain Beefheart, but he seems to be coming from that same odd inspired place that gave us the beat poets and their offspring.

And fuuuuuuck, "11:35" is brilliant multi-microcosm Altman storytelling writ tiny. (I'd big-up "Famous", too, but that's more of a "El-P surprises the shit out of me by coming clear and no-frills and making his pre-emptive 'Last Real Nigga Alive' move" thing than a Yay For Aes lauding and is therefore a DIGRESSION!)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

El-P's verse (four minutes long!) walks away w/the whole damn album

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

serious question: has El-P ever done a verse that good before ever?

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

If you're thinking punchlines he was fucking top rank in CoFlow's "Vital Nerve" ("how you gonna bring a go-kart to the Grand Prix/hee hee/laughter"; "so tootsie roll the FUCK back to your seat 'cause I don't like you!"; "I see through pussy like the Invisible Woman"), and as conceptual narrative it's hard to beat "Stepfather Factory", but his turn on "Famous" oughta shut up a few skeptics, and in a way that definitely makes it his best verse.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

no, I like "S. Factory" and "Vital Nerve" lots, I just can't think of a song where he puts it all together like that.

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 5 September 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Patriotism" is slightly more amazing than "We're Famous"

roger adultery, Saturday, 6 September 2003 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, yeah, it's the best protest song of 2003 (written in 1999)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

hell is a four minute el-p verse (four fucking minutes?!?!!)

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't come to the threads you post and slap Master P's dick out of your mouth

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(That's the new slogan for Grandma Betsy's Biscuit Powder!)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

aw fuck no you just didnt!!! are you lookin for a beatdown sequel to the clueless cum bubble thread !!?!

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sick of you sticking your head into EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKING THREAD THAT DISCUSSES INDIE RAP OF ANY SORT, something you DAMN WELL KNOW you have no business even discussing ("hey nate please send me a mixtape because I am on a POSITIVE TIP! and haven't heard an underground rap song in two years; PS I wish people wouldn't be SO MEAN :,( " ), and all you do is make completely useless wisecracks of no value whatsoever. I don't know about your faux-naif click of fellow sandwich artists, but to me the only thing "trife to thread!" brings when it comes to discussing any artist that sells less than 500,000 albums is the level of insight you'd expect from the most desperate-for-"down"ness closet tweemo kid with the single most predictable kneejerk reaction to any mention of Def Jux/El-P/underground rap in general. I'm fucking sick of not being able to speak my mind and give my opinion on artists I find valid and fascinating and just plain fucking great without you saying bullshit that'd get your eye socket fractured in real life.

Why don't you just call me racist and get ALL your idiotic strawman-burning tendencies out of the way right now?

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(and that "clueless cum bubble thread" was started by you butting in with a completely unprovoked "OMG NATE HAS NEVER HAD SEX ROTFL!!!1" joke, go fucking figure)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

yo nate you did all that for el-p and then accuse me of havin a rappers dick in MY mouth?? for what its worth i was being real abt the mixtape thing and still would be interested in that, i figured you never replied bcz your much happier staying alone in your fake safezone of 'ilm-persecuted' timidly closeminded taste in rap, as for the rest of your usual bullshit youre jumping on the indie guilt/faux naif/strawman name-calling bandwagon a couple years too late, check when ilm ppl who are much smarter than you use those terms, they actually know what they mean

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:20 (twenty-one years ago)

and id be happy for you or anybody to trade ideas or argue w me abt master p or who fucking ever, thats why ilm is a discussion site and not some wack indie 'lets just trade corny positive bullshit and release dates' messagegroup you want it to be

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't care if you came in to shit on El, Aes, Vast Aire, MF Doom or fucking Humpty Hump; what the issue is here is your predictable tendency to just step in like your opinion of underground rap means anything more significant than "The beats are not jiggy crunk and the rhymes are too complex therefore it is shitty and worthless". The only reason you probably looked in this thread was because the header was "Aesop Rock is cool" and you probably had a snarky "I can't understand what he is rapping about and the production makes me sad" retort, and all you did was just replace that with "ew El-P for four minutes, that's awful". Have you even fucking HEARD THE VERSES? I think Matos and I made it pretty damned clear that they're pretty different from his usual style. Fucking A. And "timidly closeminded taste in rap": yeah, that's precious. I guaranfuckingtee you I have more appreciation and tolerance for mainstream hip-hop than you have for underground hip-hop.

What I want ILM to be is something above "hurr hurr uh like dude that suxx"; you seem to approach most indie rap in a tone that sounds like a hyperactive teenager on a Dew-and-crank bender lashing out against all those horrible critics who said bad things about "bling bling" in their big-up reviews of Stankonia or Labor Days.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

dude he made an el-p joke. if you got mad at everybody that dissed el-p on the internet everyday youd be a very busy man!

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe I should focus my anger on people who miss the fucking point completely then

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

the internet sounds like an ugly place.

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

so, wait, is it one straight FOUR minute verse? is there a break for a chorus or anything in there? that sounds daring at least.

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

how are the beats? i've heard aesop is self-producing a lot of it, which seems an odd choice when he could cherry-pick some good el-p and rdj2 beats and make blockhead do the rest.

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

el-p is funny and sets himself up for shit talk. i just watched the return of the robots dvd and its pretty good!! they mess with rjd2 n shit. i recommend it to everyone.

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"Harry Potter? I don't know what this is doing in my bag."

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

hey, has there been a positivity c/d yet?

vahid (vahid), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

because i just got a promo of dangermouse and jemini on lex and it's pretty fun, though i don't trust my enjoyment of it yet.

vahid (vahid), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

thing is you don't realize it's four minutes till you look at the time--he's just got you HOOKED.

M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i can barely listen to my best friends talk for four minutes straight, so this might be the second fricking coming as far as i'm concerned

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

actually i think that's one thing almost all the def jux mc's excel at, is clock management. aes might be the weakest in this respect! if aesop could hit another note or two i could get stuck in his flows for hours. i'm cool with the monotone but occasionally i'd just like him to shut his trap and let me hear the beat for a couple bars.

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't make heads or tails of my own post there. command! of! language! slipping!

rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I downloaded "We're Famous".. It's the indie "Takeover"!! I've only listened once. I didn't really follow Aesop's verse. El-P was good, but kinda tedious, and who is he dissing anyway? The beat is kinda trend-hoppy, with that kick drum and all.

Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post.. Also! Aesop Rock doesn't enunciate well!

Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I get what you're getting at -- he actually shuts up and lets the beat speak for a bit on "Boombox", and it's like surfacing from the deep end of a swimming pool.

Like I said, El's verse seems kind of pre-emptive. It'd be funny if he knew some piddling shit he was half-involved in (like the 7L and Esoteric vs. Weathermen feud that saw Esoteric take a sideways potshot at Cannibal Ox) was bound to blow up by the October release date but didn't want to be TOO specific. Or maybe he likes keeping his potential rivals paranoid (cf. the "To all of those who fantasize we’re dissing you specifically, stop, if that time ever comes, you’ll know" line on the back of the "End to End Burners" 12") and hope they flip and come out of the woodwork where they're vulnerable.

(Sorry for derailing the thread up there but you know how pointy sticks are)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

(Nate, don't let his neurotic need to look down on people get in the way of you speaking about the music you love)

oops (Oops), Saturday, 6 September 2003 07:06 (twenty-one years ago)

oops when did i say one word that was looking down on ppl!! i made one like three word post abt el-p and patrin went into his vein-popping uptight full paragraphs batshit mode!! btw all you paranoid fucks the last def jux thread i posted to was the rjd2 one where i had nothing but love, is it that far-fetched for yall to comprehend my el-p hate comes not from some overarching rap worldview but just maybe simply hearing an atrocious mc?? its not like im alone on this!!

trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 6 September 2003 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Look what I done started :)


FYI I heard that El's verse was about the 7L & Esoteric beef, but no need to fuel fanboy backpacker fantasies, right?


best line: "motherfucker you're not a vet you're just OLD!"

roger adultery, Saturday, 6 September 2003 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

El-P definitely isn't as high a caliber of mc as Master P.

I broke down and bought the last Aesop album on super sale after hearing so many people rave about it. I like a few of the beats and dig his voice, but his lyrics just take more work to understand--to actually make out the words and to decipher the meaning--than I'm willing to put in.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 6 September 2003 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Trife, you've not only wasted an opportunity to joke that I popped a "cold vein", you've sort of forgotten that yr overarching rap worldview and your "I hate this undie MC" interjections are practically inseparable. (Don't make me exhume your spizzazzz "conscious rap 2002 Top Ten" (mostly because the link doesn't work), and how you and your friends whined that I was an awful hater when I posted a retort to it.) I could understand if you just plain don't like certain MCs but every so often you should try to maybe explain it in ways that don't seem condescending or based entirely on you refuting some perceived Pitchfork-esque indie-crit consensus. (That thing you posted last month about why you don't like Gift of Gab was a reasonable start.)

Then again, maybe I should give up trying to reason with/explain anything to you, so you can just go right ahead and add my name next to Custos' and gygax's and amateurist's on your Enemies List for you to bring up almost non-sequitorially when you feel as though your heart has been hurt by corny indie fuxx (tm ethan padgett)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Why does he keep shouting at me?

Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 6 September 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

who, nate or el-p?

gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 6 September 2003 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Or Aesop Rock? (remember him?)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 6 September 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought I was on his enemies list as well?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 6 September 2003 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I think we should all just start recording songs where we diss each other on here. One of ya'll mother fuckers got it comin'. Rat tat tat.

Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Sunday, 7 September 2003 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
best line: "motherfucker you're not a vet you're just OLD!"

I dunno if it's the beat or what, but I hearing "oh, sick joke" in my head after this line.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I still haven't heard the new album, but while i am a big fan of the Ox and El-P, Labor Days left me pretty cold. I came to it after seeing Vast, Aes and Lif live in LA, where Aes did the best genuine improvised freestyles I've ever heard. But I do think there is something wack about fast-rapping and trying to overload lyrics with meaning. Rap is not poetry - though when its good it is poetic. Rap is its own damn thing, and I enjoy hearing a gifted flow. (I think El has a nice flow sometimes, when he slows down. AR too) But sometimes I wonder if, despite the very serious historical sense of most fast rappers, they're not trying to make it more "literary", or scholarly. Vice magazine did a thing with Aesop a couple of years ago saying "If NYC rap had to produce a graduate level thesis, this is the guy who would write it". If you want to be a writer, write, and don't ram too much into verses. Fast rapping is like fast-talking: draining for the listener, no matter how insightful its content. But definitely the best freestyle I ever heard.

cardinalrule, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't really consider Aesop one of those out-of-time 'fast rap'/spoken word mc's, even when he goes out he's still got a pretty tight flow. It's always related to the beat, he's almost always hitting important words of the phrase on downbeats.

Haven't heard the new one yet, but I love, love, Labor Days. Does Blockhead do many beats on the new one? He really made Labor Days great, partly by bringing back actual fucking basslines (and good ones too).

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...
Revive!

This album is finally starting to make sense to me. Random thoughts without any concept to connect them: the beat on "Freeze" is great. Party Fun Action Committee got slammed but I think they lighten up "Cook It Up" very effectively, reading backwards from their fun vocals highlights the humor that Aesop sneaks into his lyrics. Aesop's sense of humor gets overlooked because everything comes out in that serious-sounding growl. "We're Famous" is like a wake-up slap right in the middle of the album just when you're thinking you've got it all figured out! "This is for all those super-scientifical, uh, geniuses!"

rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Forgot this one: Aesop seems really deeply effected by 9/11. It almost seems like he's trying to repress what he might feel about it but it keeps pushing out into the cracks in his songs since the Daylight EP ("If you've gotta rock a gas mask outside your own apartment/You can pretty safely quote Shamar/'life's ill, sometimes life might kill'/sometimes prayers dwindle")

rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

...and in slowly working through his reactions is creating a far more genuine/true reaction than all the opportunistic songs that were "about" 9/11 written just after?

rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm, actually (mostly) agreeing with Rollie Pemberton's pfork review shockah!

Everything until the end is cool, but NY Electric's grimed-up Get Ur Freak On beat makes for one of the best tracks on the album (and def. the best Aesop-produced beat). I like Super Fluke a lot too.

At first I was really disappointed with the production and general lack of Blockhead on it, it made me realize how massive a part he is of Labor Days. My favorite song is still probably Babies with Guns, which could be a LD outtake (it's also got the most melodic hook, which I think has got to be the influence of the production), but the lo-fi stompiness of the rest of the tracks has grown on me a lot.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

|ALERT| The new aesop rock record is terrible
|ALERT| The instrumentals are wack except the intro, it sounds like el-p hired a bad funk band with a distinct smooth jazz influence and bought some expensive keyboards
|ALERT| I got a little respect for your word aesop-- write me-- i got you with the instrumentals, and you just need a little workshopping
|ALERT| This album contains a wack cage verse
|ALERT| I am nostalgaic for float and that other record
|ALERT| I like track 10

luriqua, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 19:57 (seventeen years ago)

This album is fire. I see it as a return to his glory days. It sounds like it could fit in with the classics of the early 90's hip-hop scene.

brightscreamer, Wednesday, 18 July 2007 04:24 (seventeen years ago)

big LOL at this thread being started by roger adultry

deej, Wednesday, 18 July 2007 06:15 (seventeen years ago)

sor-e wrong thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Confounded, Wednesday, 18 July 2007 06:43 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

lol

W4LTER, Friday, 24 August 2007 00:41 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

Actually, in my experience, slackers listen to Mars Volta
and Aesop Rock. Just one man's testimony.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, July 17, 2006 8:36 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

passanchino XL (and what), Sunday, 14 December 2008 00:36 (sixteen years ago)

two months pass...

im an el-p stan but i thought his verse on this record was a bit too self indulgent. seemed like something he should have put either on his own album (or better yet, a one off promo so people can forget it ever existed).

other than that, really good album.

Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 24 February 2009 12:00 (sixteen years ago)

three years pass...

Anybody else still like this dude? I really like Skelethon, even the songs with Kimya Dawson (though I really don't want an entire album of the two of them). I think its nice to hear him go without Blockhead productions.

HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 9 November 2012 15:54 (twelve years ago)

We talked about it in this thread

aesop rock C/D, S&D

Luchinski pourin' from the sky, let's get rich (what) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Friday, 9 November 2012 16:01 (twelve years ago)

oh shit, thanks, missed that one

HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 9 November 2012 16:02 (twelve years ago)


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