Taking Sides: Punk Rock Vs Prog Rock. (And Which Side Was The Biggest Influence on Post-punk/Post-Rock?)

I don't know if I'd agree with "most" there.

1. Punk Rock
2. Prog Rock
3. Post-punk
4. Post-Rock

and last but not least:

5. Influence

Let's hope it remains there

George- you might be new here so sorry abt that. threads get a bit circular at times but I got some threads that touch on these issues but they may not have the same title.

Also, whatever Dada tells you to do, then do the opposite.

anyway here are some threads on prog or where its discussed:

What's wrong with prog-rock?/ Prog-rock S/D
RFI from Pashimina - it's a prog-rock type thing
Punk nixes prog-rock => Punk gets proggy : Full circle?
What would music be like if PROG never happened?
Prog.

Codifying definitions; progrock vs postrock.

(Wait... is this the right thread

Right, but at least get yer definitions reasonably watertight before embarking - we don't want to be bailing out halfway through (or down - to extend the metaphor further than it deserves)

Well at least we agree on something!

*sigh*

And anyway, the only definitions you'd accept would be the ones that agree with yr point of view so fuck that.

Actually I agree with you on the first point, which explains why is this thread is a non-starter, which is kind of the point I was making all along.

Nonetheless occasionally I have a hankering for definitions that have at least some objective truth and are not merely the forcing of square pegs into round holes in the service of whatever of revisionist theories might have cropped up lately.

Two things that interested me recently, though neither are new. Some interview where J. Lydon says that *Sid* introduced him to Can. That kind of blew my mind, if true. I was reading a book about the Smiths recently, and they also talk about a Can influence. I start to wonder if everyone in the UK had Tago Mago or something. Can were a total mystery when I was growing up in New Jersey and reading the Rolling Stone Album Guide. Also, Peter Hammill's "Nadir's Big Chance" album, which has quickly become one of my favorite things ever. Lydon played two tracks from it when he was on the radio.

Also Pete Shelley did the sleevenotes to a Can compilation around 1978, Steve Severin was a big fan, and I remember reading an interview with Andy Partridge enthusing about listening to "Tago Mago" on headphones. So, yes, they were pretty well known in the UK, they toured there reasonably often, played pretty big venues. I don't know what level of popularity they enjoyed: Van der Graaf Generator or Caravan or Gentle Giant or Camel? Maybe Gong is a better comparison?

I don't know how popular many of those bands were in the US either, Gentle Giant toured there and seem fairly well known.

I love Jaz Coleman's story about hearing Tago Mago.

http://thequietus.com/articles/08309-jaz-coleman-killing-joke-favourite-albums?page=7

i think Tago Mago was a big record for Can. my mom had the album gifted to her by a friend that worked at college radio in Ohio in the 70s.

oh wait it wasn't Tago Mago but Ege Bamyasi

With Can and the German bands, I always thought John Peel and some of the more adventurous BBC radio shows played those bands. Tangerine Dream got played beside them, got signed to Virgin and then sold a boodle of records. I would have figured Klaus Schulze would have gotten played in similar radio shows too in the UK. I would think that the synths of prog along with these German artists definitely including Kraftwerk is part of progressive rock's heritage into punk and electronic dance music. I think it was more the On the Run sequencer than the pyrotechnics of Keith Emerson that had the influence.

I think prog's influence can be seen within some of the early bands like Pere Ubu. Tin Huey were a new wave/post punk band that prog in their sound too. Chris Cutler and Fred Frith both played with musicians from the punk side of the fence. The sidemen of Beefheart's later bands also directly crossed into 80s punk/postpunk/indie rock. Musically it probably even crossed over more with the math rock and post rock music that came along later with the German bands having a big influence.

I've read David Thomas somewhere recently talking about a Cleveland record shop that sold German and other European imports. Sounded like you were deemed unhip if you weren't familiar with yer Krautrock.

I had already read that another RFTTer was into things like Krautrock and Britfolk. Think it may be in the linernotes to something, possibly the Datapanik box or Those Were Different Times.