Visual Sound

PS. I would imagine that Fred, the resident ILM synaesthetic, might be able to help me out over here. I want my Synaes-Thesis! (collective ILM groan.)

Well, Mitch, since everyone else are being big poopieheads, I'd like to cast my vote for a visual rep. of some of the tracks from Aphex's Selected Ambient Works II.

This question is tough for me because I'm not too sure about music & the still image, because music is based in time. I keep thinking of moving images, like a fractal design set to Oval's Microstoria Runtime Engine. Maybe a drone piece, that could work. Let's say Fennesz' "A Year In A Minute" for something recent.

are you trying to say that painted works cannot express motion?

No, Ethan, but your question clarified the approach: A painting that captures the emotions of a piece of music. I could see that. I was thinking of a painting that was an analog in terms of form or something, and that seemed hard.

Hahaha, Mitch, what art school do you go to?

Sincerely yours, Matthew the art-school refugee

Refugee Matthew: Do I amuse you? Seriously though, this is an honest- to-goodness four year arts degree- not art therapy or the like. Unless my family and friends have deceived me and decided I needed "re-programming".

Thanks Jess and Mark for the responses, I'm still holding out for the rest of you. I was expecting things along the lines of "The undulating rhythms of [x] always bring the image of a pulsating toad's neck to my mind" or "When the blurred synths of [y] are brought into sonic focus, I imagine an intense red seeping through a black fog". Also, Mark, I've heard the Fennesz track in question- how do you visualize it?

I'm sick of this. I went on to this thread seeing what looked like a compelling and fascinating discussion on visualizing the nonvisual. And what the hell do I get? Some stupid backtalk on conversation that is reserved for emails. Maybe once or twice is allright, but when that hogs up the whole thread, it makes me want to puke. You have your email address and you list it for a reason. SO USE IT! Stop having all these insider conversations that no one would understand anyhow (let alone even be interested in). Good threads are like snowballs: Once you get one going, they get bigger and larger and more interesting. When you kill the momentum of the thread with stupid banter that goes so early on in this one, it spoils it for everyone and really destroys the thread.

Luptune: I'm not exactly sure what you aren't happy with over here. I would like nothing more than for this thread to evolve into a compelling and fascinating discussion. The only thing here that could conceivably be seen as "preventing" this, might be Matthew's two sentence-long post that I doubt was intended to derail the focus of the thread (Incidentally, Matthews's comments are not any kind of in- joke or insider conversation). I gave my fairly short response to Matthew's lighthearted question and then tried to steer the thread back on the "compelling discussion" path. I really am hoping to see some genuine insight and intelligent discussion on this thread and I'd be severely disappointed if it became random chatter (that's what ILE is for, surely).

In fact, how about we don't get into a meta-argument about the nature of threads and how easily the focus can be lost and you post your thoughts on the topic (if you so wish).

Mark: even though I'm going to produce a painting eventually, I don't really mean the responses to thread to be limited to "what would translate well from music to the painted image" . I remember your description of Oval's "Microstoria Runtime Engine" from your Mouse on Mars interview on Pitchfork and I found it fascinating. More of the same,please. (I feel a bit like I'm dictating what this thread should and shouldn't include- I don't mean to be any kind of "controlling" force over here, I just want to make certain that I didn't incorrectly word the topic- I hope it *doesn't* read as "help Mitch make a painting".)

Mitch, I'm glad you understood my small joke. I realized shortly after posting it that it could have been misconstrued as an insult directed to your school; I assure you I meant no such thing (as I hoped to indicate by identifying myself as a bona fide ex-art schoolian). I was just reveling in the mildly silly fact that such an assignment is evidently standard art-school (or art major) assignment fare.

Anyhow, to keep this thread on-topic, even though I agree and don't think it ever really left it, I'll mention that I did a series of paintings indicating the colours I felt represented each of the 12 tones of the western scale. The professor politely informed me that tones do not count as music, so I had to do it over again to something more 'appropriate' (to "Ascension," this time). I think I had my transfer in by that time.

I don't meant to be (as Jess says, ha) a poopyhead - I just don't have any music I'd particularly like to see transmuted into image - any would do, I guess. I don't really see music in images. It would be interesting to see, though.

Tricky this, as I'm not sure how the unfolding structure of a piece of music (i.e. development over time) can be represented in a static canvas. Bit of a challenge, that.

I was listening to Arto Lindsay's "Prize" last night, and the immaculate way the track "Resemblances" is pieced together made me think of this thread. But, it's not just about textures or tone or perceived emotional content, but about *timing*. I guess this could map to placement on the 2D plane of the painting, if you're very clever.

No chance of a video installation, Mitch? Or paint on a surface which degrades in a predetermined way?

Mitch -- Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. This is a sweet idea but does seem difficult, because of differences w/ respect to time. Definitely worth a go, though.

I do find "Runtime Engine" to be incredibly visual, but I always think of movement when I hear it -- cells dividing, people moving, and so on. I can't see how that could be captured with a still image.

Re the Fennesz, there would just have to be a ton of light. Maybe dissapear into one of clouds in Vermeer's "View of Delft" and see what's going on up there. That could come close.

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, and sorry, Michael- no installations or degrading paint. The "moving through time" issue is something that'll have to be overcome unless I decide to focus primarily on the overall emotional impact of the piece. I know that Paul Klee tried to represent notions of counterpoint and polyrythms in his paintings, I'll do some research. Also, I just want to point out again that we needn't only discuss music that would tranlate well to a static medium- it should be plently interesting to find out what you see in your head when the sound is playing, whether still or in flux.

Since posting I thought of an analogy that came to mind earlier, Jan Jelinek's Loop-finding-jazz-records is very close to Rothko to me. Something about the simple, warm, blurry color that is "just there" seems to apply to both works.

Good call on the Jelinek/Rothko comparison Mark. A lot of the "glitch" stuff (Oval's "Store Check" fer instance) always reminded me somewhat of the work of Arshile Gorky, all those niggling little folds and bubbles and pops and pustuiles, treading the line between ugliness and the sublime. It's also funny, because in answer to Mitch's question of what the Aphex record made me "see," I've always mostly equated them as abstracts, either warm fuzzy color fields ala Rothko, the lighter later work of Willem DeKooning, something somewhat stationary or merely drifting, muted. Although on hearing the first track for the first time, I was immediately put in mind of a definite landscape: a misty, canyon field like Monument Valley on an alien world, replete with hill dwellers singing to each other.

I read E.L. Doctorow's "Ragtime" recently and there's a part in the book when a character is momentarily contemplating suicide by throwing himself underneath a moving train. He describes the sound of the syncopated steel-on-steel as a "suicide rag". This reminds me very much of Low's "Do You Know How to Waltz?" which I heard in its entirety only a few weeks ago. This is perhaps the only piece of music which I imagine to rise upward, rather than progess forward. The impenetrable wall of metallic guitar noise breathes out momentarily, only to return with greater momentum, occasionally undercut by tiny, fragile, shimmering melodies. The music seems simultaneously weighty,dense and ethereal, floating. Hard to imagine a static visual representation, though.

I must be breaking some ILM rule concerning the amount of times you can post to your own, under-replied, thread, but here's me again:

Today I found out how the "music moving through time" problem is to be resolved: A series of very small paintings (12, I think) that describe the music as it progresses- like a storyboard. In related news, during our class today we were played a piece of music (some classical fanfare piece I didn't recognize- think Patriotic American Movie War Music) and had to visually describe it. After everyone had completed that exercise, a girl in the class provided the next track- some generic, slow moving R&B that contained little variation- a looped, two beat rhythm with some light female vocals. It didn't really lend itself well to the task at hand. Then, after someone's tape wouldn't play, I volunteered my replacement- Aphex Twin's "Girl/Boy Song" (from a self-burned compilation CD I had on me). It felt good to subject a class with relatively conservative musical taste to something so alien- Aphex's harsh, stuttering, spastic beats and clicks were so completely different to the music that had preceded it. I'm not sure how the majority of the class felt, though I did receive a couple of compliments. I will see who still smiles at me tomorrow morning and doesn't edge away nervously.

I am not happy with this storyboard thing.

There's a painting by some Russian dude that you should see, Mitch. The idea in it is nothing new (basically, cubist rendering of a figure that forces time into the equation) but it's a grate illustration of how the storyboard thing could be avoided (if you were allowed to). Not sure how well it would apply to paintings without non-abstract material, though. I'll send you some info about the painting once I find the book that it's in.

Unfortunately Josh, the storyboard format is compulsory, it seems. I'm also not convinced that it's the ideal solution. The manner in which musical progression is understood in my mind is significantly different to the linear progression of say, an animated sequence. I'd still very much like to see the work of said Russian dude, though.

My two cents: Good luck with the project. Aside from the aforementioned Klee, Mondrian and Kandinksy, if I remember correctly, were also very interested in translating music into painting--and I could easily seem them trying to translate Aphex Twin. Additionally, there are many parallels between ragtime/jazz and cubism. Josh, I hope you find that painting!

on another thread, Honda sez: "i tend not to think of the music when i hear "confield" but instead envision weird little scenes full of sound-effect inducing creatures/naturaldisasters/machines/etc. for me its kind of like a bedtime story 2001 IDM style." and Emily added "I do that too! Only, not for "Confield" but for Ep7, and I have this entire story line about a robot..."

My project is long over - Josh, where's my painting yo? ;) - but I think there might be more great answers like this that didn't emerge the first time around.

Send me email to remind me and maybe I'll remember when I'm around my books.

I don't really have helpful answers to the question, but synaesthesia fascinates me. In particular, I gather that one of the most common forms/effects is for people to associate colours with different letters of the alphabet; I don't want to sound too cynical, because I believe there is something fascinating going on here and would love to know more about it, but I would be interested to know how the colours such people associate with letters correlate with the colours those letters were painted on, for example, alphabet-learning wall friezes in their bedroom as a child, etc.

That probably sounds really skeptical. It isn't, merely curious. I'd love to be synaesthetic, I only get the vaguest such sensations very occasionally.

Off at a tangent, and I hope it isn't one which derails what promises to be an interesting thread again, if you haven't already you should take a look at Aphex Twin embedding pictures in the frequency spectral analysis FFT plot of some of his tracks: http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ , and see http://www.tp.spt.fi/~cleth/aphex.gif for a better imagegrab. Apparently the Plaid track 3 Recurring also features lots of pictures of threes. I had fun turning a photo of my cat into a whooshy sound much like an aeroplane taking off, too. This is old news, but hey, the thread reminded me. (This discovery also made me think that maybe that was the key to understanding Richard Devine tracks, but no, you get all the headache-inducing whooshing and no pretty pictures. Yes, I am a philistine, thank you.)

Dat's rilly neat, Rebecca. What software did you use to turn a pic of yr kitty into sound?

Ohh.. I heard of this program and even tried out a demo once but the name escapes me... You can also turn sound into pictures actually. I remember some piano chords looked like a stack of fuzzy yellow smears.

Re painting by Russian dude: This rang a bell with me, but it turned out what I vaguely remembered was an _Italian_ dude, Giacomo Balla. Check www.futurism.org.uk (click "Please click", then "italian futurists" and then, er, "Balla") for a few of his paintings. Not sure if it's anything like Josh was thinking of, but that little dog is rather cute, isn't it?

I used Coagula; you can download a free "light" version from here. Apparently Metasynth can do similar things better, but I haven't tried it, I think it costs lots. You can get a trial version of the spectral analyser I used (also shown in the screenshots above) from here if you don't have one, too.

It works better on line art really, but if you play around with the contrast and so on you can get reasonable results on photos.

When I listen to Prefuse 73 I get a picture in my head of an old, but recently revarnished, wooden table.

Summary from a couple of years ago, further links above the picture section : http://www.bastwood.com/aphex.php

Also, Satie is a green undulating flag.