Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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As seen here....

http://pitchforkmedia.com/features/castoffs-and-cutouts/

Ott takes some severe potshots at some unsuspecting 80's/90's acts with a style that could be best summed up as savage character-assasination. However, does the man have all his facts straight? Witness his needlessly nasty swipe at my beloved Cop $hoot Cop's Ask Questions Later

49: Cop Shoot Cop: Ask Questions Later
Usually bought on the basis of its EXTREME cover art, Cop Shoot Cop were one of Interscope's earliest signatures, an industrial funk-metal mess from NYC in dire need of a decent drummer and a real singer. No single record more accurately captures the sound of a bad high school Goth band trying to intimidate their teachers from behind a Yamaha PSR

Granted, Cop $hoot Cop were often lazily lumped in with the
so-called 'industrial' scene, but their lack of any sci-fi shenanigans or silly haircuts usually made them stick out like turds on the prayer rug. I have *NO* idea how Mr.Ott heard any "funk metal" in C$C. And "Goth"? I fuckin' think not.

Beyond that, Ott aims his sharpshooting keyboard at some otherwise respectable albums. See what you think.....

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i was pretty appalled at him calling depeche mode a "bad gay joke" since 1990. SOFAD ruled. granted, it was no violator or black celebration, but what is?

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Aside from rarely seeing any of the albums outside of the top 10 in bargain bins/used racks, I thought the piece was pretty bad. However, I completely concur with picks #1 and #2.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, he really didn't have anything bad to say about _Honey's Dead_! (Although he dislikes "Catchfire", which means he's insane.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The whole thing seems rather pointless.
He admits that he's not really targeting the bulk of the CDs commonly found in used bins and then dismisses a whole whack of CDs that, for the most part, I've never seen in a used bin. And this is his clever list about the CDs most likely to be found in used bins?

― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

god, i can't imagine writing about all those albums. did he lose a bet? if yur gonna waste all that hyperbole on bad music you should at least get a job writing press releases. they pay better. he's the dude that loves peter gabriel, right? ugh.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Pretty lackluster assasination attempt on albums that have already been shot at and killed by much more competent writers. I guess Ott figures you can never really be sure a dog's dead until you kick it a few times.

And a few of those albums are pretty damn good.

― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

what an awful selection of records (only boces is worth the time of day, maybe the new order one)

― ... (gareth), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I never realized how much lame music I still own and listen to. Thanks, Chris Ott!

― Andrew Frye (paul cox), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of factual inaccuracies:
The Cure were not dream pop
The KLF were not grebo(!!)
And a list of grebo bands is not complete without the Wonder Stuff.

― Jeremy (Jeremy), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Pup Tent didn't "flop" anymore than any other Luna album--it sold a few fewer copies, but each of their Elektra albums sold around 50,000 copies, which is terrible for a major label but not too shabby. (They're all still in print, too, which is sort of amazing.)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

He mentions "collge freshmen" about 12 times - lame crutch.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of factual inaccuracies:
The Cure were not dream pop
The KLF were not grebo(!!)
And a list of grebo bands is not complete without the Wonder Stuff.<

I have no use whatsofuckingever for Chris Ott or Pitchfork (and I actually think "I Feel You"'s great Bad Company imitation is one of the best things Depeche Mode ever did, and I like a couple songs by the Dambuilders, too) but believe me: The items listed above are hardly "factual innacuracies." They're matters of opinion, okay??

― chuck, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Sam J.'s "lame crutch" call is, on the other hand, more fact than opinion, heh heh. (meaning I agree w/it)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Badly researched bullshit. At least 40% of that was personal and no way indicative of what I see in second hand stores having had worked in one.

C'mon man, if you are struggling to fill it with real stuff, why not farm it out? or use real store stats and give a second store some publicity and yourself some basis in fact.

scott

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

great idea though

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

great idea that's been done a thousand times already by writers with far less contempt for their audience

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

without reading the article i expected to find i owned most of these albums. boy was i wrong.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr Matos, that was spot on. he seems in utter utter contempt of the fans of these records rather than discussing why the records actually failed. which is upsetting as I enjoy his writing normally. Plus the multiple page thing is just annoying.

I still maintain it's a good idea if he ever tried to root it in fact.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The items listed above are hardly "factual innacuracies." They're matters of opinion, okay??

OK, I should have chosen my words more carefully. "Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of very debatable opinions." But honestly, calling the KLF grebo makes about as much sense to me as calling Negativeland twee pop.

― Jeremy (Jeremy), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone actually read this? Not every recod got dismissed.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

contempt for audience /= dissmissing every record

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I know that, but a lot of people are arguing from a position that makes it seem like all of the records are being chastised/denigrated, and they just aren't.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, sorry then

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

R.I.F.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

With Ott it's less contempt for audience and more contempt for everything, isn't it? That said, I think the piece is fine. I see all of the selections mentioned in used bins regularly and it makes sense to focus only on those things that would be of some interest to the average pitchfork reader. Plus he picks out several things that are worth picking up for 1-2 bucks. I guess we can turn this in to another "Pitchfork Sucks" thread, but I don't think it's really warranted.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't Melody Maker used to do this kinda thing once a month? It was shit then as well.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

well, contempt for everything makes the whole thing all right! duh!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Just saying that I've read Ott's stuff on P'fork before (I assume you have as well), I knew what to expect going in, and there wasn't much there to rile me. Which I guess means that the piece failed since Ott's M.O. is pretty much always to get a rise out of his audience.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

And yes, since this seems to be his only goal, I don't think he's worth much as a music critic. On the other hand, as a message board troll, he's great.

― fffv (fffv), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I skimmed through two pages and then was too bored to continue. Do they really expect readers to pore over pages and pages of this stuff?

― Nicolars (Nicole), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Odd that there were no Pumpkins albums, I see them in bins even more than '90s REM.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

ott is fucking high;
can't do this list without the
GOD DAMNED SPIN DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously it's statistically suspect, especially globally, but we did the best we could, we're a daily site. I spent about two weeks on this and so far only regret missing The Cure's Wild Mood Swings. Spin Doctors and Pumpkins are far too mainstream to bother with, you're talking about heavy, heavy MTV and RS exposure, just huge bands. REM was an exception because both longtime and new fans sell it back without fail.

And my only interest is to "rile" readers? Do me a favor and read some of my reviews, rather than just the last two admittedly inflammatory features. I've gotten behind loads of records. And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I quite liked it, Chris, although you mentioned The Cure a few too many times.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I did mention The Cure too often; I also made too many disparaging comments toward teenagers considering our audience, but I honestly like the "written in one go" feel that lends it, since it's so long.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.

and this proves what, exactly?

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

that's a serious question, by the way--I'm genuinely interested in the answer, and not in a baiting way, either

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

and this proves what, exactly?
That more people read and/or react to my writing than most music critics out there today, and usually (notably, gratefully) from beyond the self-adoring, self-obsessed ILM/Reynolds/Momus/blogger community.

Now are you riled? SUCKAZ SHOCKA!!!

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

why would I be riled? I was asking a question.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

So let me see... the fact that people on ILM start threads about Chris Ott... proves that people outside of ILM react to Chris Ott's writing... O-kay.

― self-adoring, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

although the fact that a guy from Pitchfork calls anyone else part of a "self-adoring, self-obsessed community" is certainly amusing
xpost

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

No, the ILM thread is predictable at this point, after the 100 useless posts you kids made in re: A.R.E.N'T G.O.O.D. It's the hundreds of positive emails I get from less cynical readers that bear me out.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not even saying that pejoratively--self-adoration and self-obsession comes with the territory of tight-knit communities a lot of the time, whether it's necessarily wise or not.

also, Ott, you're not exactly the person to be calling other people out on cynicism, either.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Music is not music.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the Spin Doctors would be #1!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

or let me put it this way: when people refer to other people as being "less cynical than thou" it's usually a dodge, a way of equating cynicism with a differing viewpoint. that may not necessarily be what you're trying to do here but it certainly comes across that way--hundreds of readers who like what you're doing vs. the people who post here who don't like what you're doing. fine--writing criticism is a divisive act, anyone who does it regularly has to be open to dealing with the consequences of it. I just think it's faulty reasoning to assume "they like it" = "they're not cynical and/or "they don't like it" = "they are cynical."

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a pretty convenient translation of my statement, Mike, allows you to be right! Ridiculously presumptuous and arrogant. The lack of cynicism I hear from outside your sphere is evident in the content of the emails I get, not their mere existence (or their positivity). I'm not offended that you think I'm that stupid, but I'm somewhat embarrassed to find that you are.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris. Hand. Penis. Scab.

Pick it off, maaaannnnn.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG CRITICISM IS MASTURBATION ANALOGY SHOCKA.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 1824 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Chapter IV: Azealia Banks

― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:28 (eight years ago)

what different do you expect from someone who's aligned himself so publicly with the alt-right

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:30 (eight years ago)

(ott, I mean)

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:30 (eight years ago)

He seems to be on a deleting spree - his account currently lists only 69 tweets. He's directed more than that at Jenn Pelly alone, I bet.

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:40 (eight years ago)

69 tweets

nice

― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Monday, 6 February 2017 17:49 (eight years ago)

lmao

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 6 February 2017 17:53 (eight years ago)

all of his tweets are retweets of noz rn pretty much

― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:00 (eight years ago)

suprised, he's seemed like he's in a really good place lately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7-dlPD6WAY

― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:01 (eight years ago)

69 Love Tweets

― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:01 (eight years ago)

apparently went after craig jenkins in the middle of the night on twitter and said some nasty shit (don't know what he said, jenkins is referring to it but not repeating it)

― nomar, Monday, February 6, 2017 11:11 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he went after jenkins for having a job, said 'yo' and other condescending shit for a while. i shouldn't have been awake with my phone in my hand to see it, but it was that kind of night.

― goole, Monday, 6 February 2017 23:56 (eight years ago)

what different do you expect from someone who's aligned himself so publicly with the alt-right

― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Monday, February 6, 2017 11:30 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what's the deal w/ this? can see he threw a few likes to one of those trumpy fashwave dealios...

― goole, Tuesday, 7 February 2017 00:04 (eight years ago)

four months pass...

so did someone take over his account as parody?? or is this real.

i guess it says something that i can't tell.

though the followers are way down so maybe it was restarted.

https://twitter.com/shallowrewards

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:10 (eight years ago)

Thank you for providing that link, because for some reason the block I had placed on it apparently wasn't there anymore. I've now solved that problem anew.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:16 (eight years ago)

haha glad to help
still can't tell if it's real :?

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:21 (eight years ago)

based on the background image, no.

― campreverb, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:26 (eight years ago)

This guy SUCKS.

― afriendlypioneer, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:29 (eight years ago)

he curses a lot

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:33 (eight years ago)

idk could be

― goole, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:34 (eight years ago)

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

― joshywinty (josh), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:26 (eight years ago)

@shallowrewards Jun 25
500 Days of Summer. Gets me. Every. Fucking. Time. When I talk about what my days were like under Ryan, that's what it was.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:28 (eight years ago)

500 days of custos

― mark s, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 22:31 (eight years ago)

I think it's amazing that Ned hates this guy so much.
If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.

― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:20 (eight years ago)

He might love puppies or something, but I care not.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:22 (eight years ago)

ts: ott vs. c-man

― mookieproof, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:24 (eight years ago)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6DGNZnfKYnU/hqdefault.jpg

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 23:25 (eight years ago)

"Gorilla mindset follower." is the giveaway here

― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:08 (eight years ago)

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/chris-ott-deleted-his-shallowrewards-twitter-for-real/

― joshywinty (josh), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:12 (eight years ago)

yeah, this is parody. definitely someone from hipinion.

― fffv, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:11 (eight years ago)

how has there not been a single mention of "bennies" yet?

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:20 (eight years ago)

Dude is going to be 65 and probably still excited that several decades before about twenty other dudes wrote about him on a message board.

― yesca, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 02:56 (eight years ago)

If Ned hates you, you really must have no redeeming qualities.

ned is an o.g. hater

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:32 (eight years ago)

Why does Ned Raggett hate Belle and Sebastian with such unbridled intensity?

http://freakytrigger.co.uk/nylpm/2000/05/in-answer-to-the-band-best-of-lists/

In answer to the band best-of lists
NED RAGGETT • NEW YORK LONDON PARIS MUNICH • POP • POST A COMMENT • 203 VIEWS
… I deem it both meet and right to speak about the music and related things I loathe. In an underrated essay from Neil Tennant that appeared in a mid-1992 issue of Details, he discussed hate as a motivating factor for creation and sense of self. To quote: “It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration, it makes you think, ‘What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.’ Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd.”

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:35 (eight years ago)

And indeed, I know what deserves my venom.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 03:36 (eight years ago)

iirc, Interpol and Elliott Smith too

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:32 (eight years ago)

The former, yes. The latter I was never really convinced by, though I was a Heatmiser fan. I just remember him doing an opening set for the Tindersticks in late 1997 that seemed pretty blah.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:39 (eight years ago)

Allmusic's Ned Raggett takes No Prisoners

― Guidonian Handsworth Revolution (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:48 (eight years ago)

ned will really burn you on a bad show experience

― j., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:50 (eight years ago)

It sure didn't help!

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 June 2017 04:53 (eight years ago)

Oh man, I still have my copy of that Neil Tennant essay. Have to pull it out again to re-read.

― john. a resident of chicago., Wednesday, 28 June 2017 05:06 (eight years ago)

Lots of people dig up my old tweets. They dont get it. Mad because your dad gets more pussy than you? Suck my fuckin dick
12:05 PM - 17 Jun 2017

― hackshaw, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:38 (eight years ago)

what if everyone just unfollowed chris ott and stopped talking about him and we all pretended he never existed

― Karl Malone, Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:48 (eight years ago)

I'm in.

― Shanty Brunch (stevie), Thursday, 29 June 2017 09:13 (eight years ago)

reddit first

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, 29 June 2017 17:51 (eight years ago)

we need the eggs, karl

― j., Thursday, 29 June 2017 18:04 (eight years ago)

👋🐨 pic.twitter.com/z6SwVQUHaW
— Pallbearer (@pallbearerdoom) July 2, 2017

― j., Sunday, 2 July 2017 14:11 (eight years ago)

whut

― alpine static, Monday, 3 July 2017 08:16 (eight years ago)

it seems unrelated but it's an absolutely wonderful post that is appreciated very much by me. keith fullerton whitman must've went to the same koala farm because there's a great picture of him with one. i'll see if i can find it

― flappy bird, Monday, 3 July 2017 17:19 (eight years ago)

http://factmag-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/keithwhitman-4.15.2013.jpg

― flappy bird, Monday, 3 July 2017 17:19 (eight years ago)

grant morrison needs to lay off the pies

― 🎵oooh, kevin has a place in perth🎵 (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 3 July 2017 17:22 (eight years ago)

eight months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MSTcRlKzs

― Leslie “POLLS” Hartley (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 25 March 2018 16:35 (seven years ago)

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