Redemption in House Music

That soulfulness did exist in Chicago house too tho', with producers like Fingers Inc. and anthems like "Love Can't Turn Around". In Chicago's music however the 'threat' of the machine was much stronger, so songs like that were balanced with the more robotic stuff - 'jack' house (eg. "Music Is The Key", "Jack Your Body", "Move Your Body") and then obviously acid house, which is some of the most soulless music ever. After acid house arrived and when the Chicago scene started to wind down that soulfulness relocated to New York in a big way (significantly, a number of Chicago producers and DJs like DJ Pierre moved to NY).

Why is it different in UK/Europe? A couple of reasons maybe - the fact that house hit in a big way as acid house, so from the get-go it was being received as primarily functionalist music. This, combined with ecstacy use, meant that perceptions of the music were fundamentally different. Ecstacy was never and has never been big in American house clubs (raves are a different matter), so the sort of rush, the sort of experience clubbers are looking for would be different. In Europe though you can see how the house that is successful (phased disco, French house, progressive) is the stuff that's designed to interface with ecstasy-use: pearly-pert sounds-for-sounds sake (arguably the phased disco cut-up isolates the sound of a certain type of soulfulness and then brutally exploits it in a functionalist manner).

Also in Europe house was received by a straight/mixed white audience as opposed to a black gay audience. White straight guys tend not to identify with divas ;-). More seriously though, there's a whole undercurrent narrative with the gospel/soul element of house being the outsider's church - the place of worship for the outcast. Contrast with the European rave ideal: not being re-accepted into society but literally escaping/exiting society.

Furthermore, the whole club vs superclub vs rave set-up in Europe sort of works against the American ethos of the club as a church. European club culture is too commodified - a hangover from the pre-acid house eighties? - and rave culture was until recently too extreme... although there's a thought: is trance (which can be quite 'spiritual' in a teutonic sense) UK/Europe's house/garage (you could also argue that other genres groped towards a similar spirituality in different ways - the ecstasy-divas of hardcore or Omni Trio, the hippy-dippy new agisms of balearic and early ambient house, the shimmering sonics of Detroit Techno or Orbital)

The other side of the coin however is that soulful house/garage *has* been popular in Europe - Ministry of Sound was built on it and it was the alternative to prog house for the discerning clubber in the early nineties. Then speed garage literally transplanted the American style in the UK (surprise surprise among a predominantly black community), albeit with tougher basslines.

D.H.S. House of God

A deep spiritual house track from the early 90s, had a chicago house vibe that just tripped and locked you into a groove.

Also Robert Owens overlooked debut album Rhythms in Me in 1990 is well worth tracking down, certainly has a deep spiritual vibe. Also Robert Owens appeared on the last Photek album, that was influenced more by house than drum n bass.

House Music and classic Detroit Techno is music made by Black people for Black people. I think the spiritualism and expression are just an outgrowth of African-American culture in general. African musical culture is very participatory, and there is much less emotional reserve in their ceremony and ritual. When that hit America it was channeled into their music and the church, which is the real driver of African American music in America.

House music exists because gay black men needed a place of refuge that the traditional black church could not provide. I think that the reason that American urban house clubs are different is because they cater to a crowd with a different set of needs and expectations. Those clubs have always catered to a crowd of outsiders who needed a place where they could be themselves and have an emotional and spiritual release. It was the gay version of a black Baptist church.

I will be honest, I pity anybody who has not been to deep urban house events in Chicago or Detroit. It is nothing like a UK superclub, it is not glossy or nice, but there is a vibe and a warmth that I have never felt in a club anywhere else in North America. It is a room full of people who came to get down and have a good time, and not because of drugs or fashion, just because they need a spiritual release to get through the turbulance of the week.

All glamour and drugs in the UK will never be able to touch the warmth and feeling in one of those nights. You will walk out of that club dead sober feeling cleansed and healed.

One of the fascinating things about Chicago house for example is how it constantly flirted with the void of soullessness, finally being consumed by it with acid house (after which the scene died in the arse for a number of years).

Meanwhile, the type of 'soulfulness' that people find in Detroit techno is a very different one to that of deep house/garage, and it's one that has clear precedents *and* antecedents in Europe (Kraftwerk, Orbital). And anyway I always thought that the sort of soulfulness that people talk about with Detroit techno was really only in retrospect, a way of distinguishing it from the various even more functionalist subgenres it spun off into in Europe. If you listen to tracks like "No UFOs", "Nude Photo", "Off To Battle", "Just Want Another Chance" etc. etc. in the context of the other dance music around at the time (house/acid house/garage/new beat) it doesn't sound soulful at all, but rather *more* mechanistic, coolly empty and purpose-made for dancefloors.

D.H.S. House of God

DJ Martian and me in owning same record shocker. It was good. But I assumed its sample ("$50 or more, for the House of God") made it a satire on TV evangelism (to rank alongside Jesus He Knows Me by Genesis), rather than a celebration of the Lord.

I am sorry, but it is. I am not going to get into the sociology of the black/white devide, but it is real. Black American culture and White European culture are two completely different things and it is why Euro music does not sound like Black American music unless it is an intentional effort to ape that particular sound.

There is a different approach and mindset that is different between Europeans and African Americans. As a European, you dont have to content with the cultural bagage of the African Diaspora, you do not have to content with a society that latently/explicitly lets you know that it hates and fears you, and you do not have the echos of tradtional African culture that continues to this day in Black families.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that by virtue of being black you are this stereotypical singing and dancing, funkdafied soul-brother love-machine. I hope that we all understand that generalization are just that, generalizations(I know you are not implying this, I just want to put that on the table when discussing a delicate subject.) I am just saying that there is a certain characteristic that African- American culture has that European cuture does not, and it comes though in the music and social gatherings.

I think European music does have soul/feeling, but it expresses itself in a different way. Aphex, Kraftwerk, Boards Of Canada or Jorg Burger come immediately to mind. They have feeling(and I seriously respect their work,) but it is not soul in the way that Marvin Gaye had soul. That being said, there is nothing soulful about 5000 brits who can't dance packed into a superclub listening to 2-step or whatever this weekend micro-genre, coked out of their skulls. ;)

It is not better or worse, but it is different.

"One of the fascinating things about Chicago house for example is how it constantly flirted with the void of soullessness, finally being consumed by it with acid house (after which the scene died in the arse for a number of years).

Meanwhile, the type of 'soulfulness' that people find in Detroit techno is a very different one to that of deep house/garage, and it's one that has clear precedents *and* antecedents in Europe (Kraftwerk, Orbital)."

No, this is wrong. You look are Cybotron specifically and early American Electro in general, you can hear Kraftwerk in there without a doubt, but Kraftwerk's idea is already being mutated by black and hispanic American producers. As the 80's progress it sounds less and less like Kraftwerk as it works its way into Electro/Rap, Miami Bass, Detroit Techno... All Kraftwerk did in the first place was knock off James Brown's music and play it on a sequencer with baroque riffs over the top. When Euro electronic music hit the ghetto and middle- class minorities it mutated. The people that were influenced by Kraftwerk/YMO/Italio-Disco ect. already had backgounds in black music and their perceptions and cultural contexts were already completely removed from the European experience.

This point is absolutely vital, this is why Techno/House is black music. Because it is black people misinterpreting European records that makes Detroit/Chicago music what it is. This is why Europe could never produce anything like DJ Assault or Night Drive Through Babylon, the social context is all wrong over there in Northern Europe. Europe did not invent this stuff because it did it is the sound of black people trying to sound like Kraftwerk.

"And anyway I always thought that the sort of soulfulness that people talk about with Detroit techno was really only in retrospect, a way of distinguishing it from the various even more functionalist subgenres it spun off into in Europe. If you listen to tracks like "No UFOs", "Nude Photo", "Off To Battle", "Just Want Another Chance" etc. etc. in the context of the other dance music around at the time (house/acid house/garage/new beat) it doesn't sound soulful at all, but rather *more* mechanistic, coolly empty and purpose-made for dancefloors."

I guess it all depends one what you try and look for in Detroit music. If you point specifically to Kevin Saunderson, or Juan's weaker material you can make that point, but you do so without considering the other side of Detroit.

Look at Derrick May's or Carl Craig's output, or anything that comes from that school of Detroit(Detroit Escalator Company, Octave One, Theorem, Tony Drake, John Beltran, Kenny Larkin, later Jeff Mills and UR...) I think there is a great deal out soul within that particular school of Detroit techno. If you hear Icon, Strings of Strings, How The West Was Won, Journey Of The Dragon, High Tech Jazz, Spider Formation or I Believe and you dont think that stuff has soul I am going to write you up a hall pass to soul class.

If you want to point to something like Forcefield or The Punisher and say that it has no more soul that anything else(well your still wrong, that Belgian stuff even made shit like Bang The Party seem soulful ;) you can, but you do so by ignoring a huge part of the Detroit Cannon. Did mechanistic dance music come out of Detroit, yeah, but it never encompassed the whole of Detroit Techno.

I dont know of many Newbeat or early UK hardcore comps or 12" reissues coming out these days, but the Detroit back catalogue is still selling. Maybe it is not soul, but something is keeping people interested it almost a decade and a half after the fact.

I know what you mean. I think it has a lot to do with regional dance music in general. Detroit does not have it because Disco never took off in Detroit. P-Funk stopped that stuff dead in its tracks in the D. Detroit is a Funk town.

As for Chicago, I think it also comes down to the difference in musical climate as well. Disco was definitely big in Chicago, and it was definitely shaped by an influx of NYC DJ's. But when Disco was imported to Chicago it mutated in a way that did not happen in NYC. That is where House comes from, NYC Disco hits the Warehouse.

NYC invented Disco, it had The Paradise Garage, and it never died like it did elsewhere. NYC will always have those disco roots, and I think NYC house has that character because they never lost those roots.

That is basicallly what it boils down to. You can get a lot more comprehensive, but I think it is a bit beyond the scope of this forum.

Thesis: what electro did to Kraftwerk, bleep and bass did to Juan Atkins. Socio-cultural resonances may abound, but what is there in the music that I'm not hearing?

"Look at Derrick May's or Carl Craig's output, or anything that comes from that school of Detroit(Detroit Escalator Company, Octave One, Theorem, Tony Drake, John Beltran, Kenny Larkin, later Jeff Mills and UR...) I think there is a great deal out soul within that particular school of Detroit techno. If you hear Icon, Strings of Strings, How The West Was Won, Journey Of The Dragon, High Tech Jazz, Spider Formation or I Believe and you dont think that stuff has soul I am going to write you up a hall pass to soul class. "

"Soul class" - what an awful concept ;-)

I'll see your Derrick May, and raise you Steve Poindexter. Okay, "Strings Of Life" I'll concede, but I'd note that most of the artists and tracks you mention appear after Detroit's golden age. Derrick May might potentially be the most influential of the original wave, but it doesn't change the fact that his sound was, at the time, in a minority.

The whole "True People" aspect of Detroit Techno is largely revisionist, a (not unreal) mythic world literally willed into being by Eddie Fowles (with help from May and the second generation stars themselves), who was always a bit of an "I've been in there from the start so give me my five minutes" character anyway so it's hardly surprising. If you want a reason for detroit's strong backcatalogue sales, well, there it is.

While I think of a decent answer, I'll throw in a completely new angle: the largely Israeli Goa/psytrance thing - a whole different kind of spirituality there. Completely different from the hedonist "superclub" attitude, but definitely nothing like the US "black gay church" phenomenon.

To put it crudely, soul in early techno=the synthesized strings.

Oh bah.

p.s:

(THE UNDEAD 808 SYNTH WILL STALK YOUR NIGHTMARES!!!!)

soulfullness in Chicago = Ten City, especially "Devotion", Joe Smooth's "Promised Land", J.M. Silk "Music is the Key", CeCe Rogers "Someday". As for current Chcago house, the Guidance label puts out some gems. And Larry Heard still puts out great music. His album Genesis from a couple of years ago is *heavily* recommended. As for the "soulless" acid house period, I must say that certain acid builds, especially the ones on "Pfantasy Girl", get me feeling very transcendant. I am guessing that Acid records were played along Deep house records in the clubs in chicago in the late 80s. Simon Reynolds, by the way, correctly locates the difference between the acid and deep aesthetics in a dialectic within Gay culture. Think about *stereotypes* of HRC activists vs. black-leather-wearing hedonists.

As for "blackness", that is not very clear cut in my mind. I would argue that many, even in the Black community, seem to think that the *underclass* black experience is the more authentic one. For better or *worse*, the poor, uneducated, heterosexual young black male from the inner-city is the stereotype around which we organize our debate regarding racial policy in america. the fact that techno and house were not made for this contituency raises interesting questions about blackness in my mind, as does the use of technology. the stereotype of black music being that it is "gritty" ala Stax Records. The upward mobility aspect, evident even in the strings of Motown, seems to be something that some activists would rather ignore because they don't like the adopting of sounds that connote elegance and (exploitative) capitalism. I think it is actually this aspect of current rap.r&b that pisses the self-conciously liberal off more than misogynistic lyrics, or violent lyrics. Of course, we don't have a class system in America, so this never gets discussed (sarcasm, people).

To sum up, I am not arguing that Techno or House is less black in its original form compared to rap, or the blues, or whatever, just that it is black music that seems to not be recognized by most black people I have met (this is key because I am not generalizing about all) as black music. Oh, and I am a cheesy evangelist DJ who talk about techno to *everyone* I meet.

If we are gonna get into a discussion of race, well, to me, class is the most important thing.

I also should say that race is a trap. we are not talking about the black race, but black culture, and there is a difference. when we realize that we are discussing a culture, which is product, which is not intrinsic, then we can say that people of all races can identify with, and be a part of, a culture created by one group. I, for instance, never fit in anywhere, and finding house, I immediately identified with the spiritual searching of outcasts, and the rejection of the whole bullshit rockstar culture. I am white, straight and middle-class, but I really do feel house from that older Chicago perspective, which, I am arguing, is not exclusively black and gay, even if that is where the culture comes from. (though I am still screwed because I am still in the minority when it comes to viewing house this way. I shoulda been born 15 years earlier in Chicago!)

In retrospect: !!!

One contribution - don't underestimate the latent spirituality in the 'white'/Anglo' house traditionL

We have a tradition of pretending things aren't spiritual when they are really, which goes back to our own historical traumas. A massive suppression of instint and imagination happened in northern Europe from the c17. All art there since - which of course can still be great, spiritual and soulful - is coloured by this forgotten trauma. because a result of the trauma was an Angl0-domainted world, people forget it hurt. Tradiotions in the US - even in white US - are different; God never went out of fashion. not much of a generalisation there, eh people??

A previous poster said how many people were turned off by the spiritual overtones of the European aciiiiid thing. For everyone who was turned off, I can find someone who was turned on. People FOUND spirituality through that cultural upheaval.

Interesting point about the Isreali link on the Goa 'twist' to all this. Worht a ponder, that one.