Live Zappa

just like a penguin in bondage boy!

get ALL of the live studio stuff. and a few choice boots.

I really liked Zappa's jazz big band (kinda) records The Grand Wazoo and Waka Jawaka, so I investigated a recent live record called Wazoo.

It's really good. The parts of "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary" kind of reminds me of the spacey parts in Mingus more moody epics like the "Orange was the Color of Her Dress" or "The I of Hurricane Sue". It would probably be even more so if the Mingus records didn't have the piano.

Beyond the music, which is fine, I got to say they did a killer job on the artwork on this disk too. It's really nicely done.

Anyway, you don't dig Zappa, but you like some jazz in that Mingus w/Dolphy kind of vein, you might be surprised on this one, although there is no big blower in the bnad like those Mingus groups. (Although I did read that RR Kirk did play with Zappa's band and killed it one time.)

http://www.dangerousminds.net/.../freak_out_over_20_minutes_of_frank_zappa_the_original_mothers_of_invention
this is great

oops here's a link that will work http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/freak_out_over_20_minutes_of_frank_zappa_the_original_mothers_of_invention

I really liked Zappa's jazz big band (kinda) records The Grand Wazoo and Waka Jawaka, so I investigated a recent live record called Wazoo.

It's really good.

Wow, really? I love those albums. Will look for this.

Man that video is so *boring*, that 'lets swing' bit is fkn tasteless.

Just watched it. I think there's a lot of great stuff in it.

fave live is Piquantique - Stockholm '73 included in Beat the Boots - killer heavy jamz w/ Jean-Luc Ponty

I've been listening to a lot of Zappa and watching Baby Snakes this week and I have to say that I'm often frustrated by Zappa's lead guitar playing. He plays so many long solos at climactic moments. I get all geared up for them and then as often as not they disappoint, starting out with promise, then noodling around without really going anywhere. He was not terrible by any means but he was clearly not a virtuoso like the guys he hired: his technical weaknesses are evident when watching him on video. I don't know why he didn't just let his hired guns handle lead guitar as well. Everything else in the Dangerous Minds clip above is fantastic but that first long distorted solo seems like a dry gulch. In fact, I was paying more attention to the rhythm section while he was playing. (I don't mind the clean leads and the more heavily processed lines later on though.) Great composer and bandleader though. I don't know if there's something about his playing that I'm missing.

"played so many"

sund4r - agree there is some good stuff at ponts (sorry for my prev comment) - he got some good musicians to play together but it ends up somewhat disjointed.

was there an album of the Does Humour Belong In Music show? or whatever tour that was taken from? i saw that on VHS as a teen and loved it but never investigated further.

Agreed that his live solos don't reflect his compositional genius (i.e. they don't go anywhere for the most part), but I think that's what make them great in a way. It's like a whole different side of him is let loose: searching, experimenting, etc.

I think his solos in a studio setting were much more taut and to the point, stuff like "Zombie Woof"

Yeah, for a guy who released a 3 LP set of guitar solos, that's not an aspect of Zappa that thrills me a lot, particularly on his earlier stuff. Three I like a lot:

Don't You Ever Wash That Thing? The whole band brought their A game for this, and Frank's solo is hot and concise.

Watermelon In Easter Hay Pretty much a consensus fan fave, I think.

Yo Mama I dunno, maybe not a lot different than many of his, but I love this one.

It's like a whole different side of him is let loose: searching, experimenting, etc.

I think this is key. He called his live soloing "spontaneous composition." What's really interesting is what he could do with those solos after he got back to the studio -- one of the most fascinating things for me in FZ lore is comparing the full length "Black Napkins" from the Eyes of Osaka boot (10:40) to the 4:15 version he put on Zoot Allures. Brock's terrible saxophone solo is gone completely. FZ himself played a lot of crap in that 10:40, but he edited and reordered what was left into a tight shiny diamond.

Going back to the live <i>Wazoo</i>, I was inevitably disappointed with that release as I've been a massive fan of those two big-band studio LPs for a long time (I think 'Blessed Relief' might be my all time fav track of his). I should probably go back to it now but I don't remember being blown away or whatever compared to the studio recs.

I'm listening to one of the "Petit Wazoo" shows on youtube this morning, digging it a lot.

Has anyone seen The Grandmothers Of Invention? It's Brock and Fowler, and on this tour, Preston, with some non-Zappa related guys. They're currently touring "Roxy and Elsewhere and More" and are coming through town. I'm very tempted.

strongly thinking of going to Dallas to see these guys

I have, twice. (Once Roy Estrada was also along.) At Winnipeg Folk Fest ("folk music" ha!!) they did the "Echidna's Arf/Don't You Ever Wash That Thing" medley. I had a great, great time.

Thanks for the first hand report Dan!

Moodles - if you're coming to the show at the Kessler let me know. My wife's not a fan so I'll be on my own.

I just found out they were here in Minneapolis three weeks ago. Totally missed my radar!

ez:

sure thing, going to try to figure out with my wife whether we can get up there. Tricky part is managing my work schedule and making sure my son has somewhere to go for the night.

gotcha. I may try to cajole my wife into going but I think I'll get a raised eyebrow for my effort.

Might shoot for Birmingham, August 12

Come to Dallas! It's only a nine hour drive.

I'd do it for a September show, but my work schedule will be too hairy in mid-August to be away that many days.

Some day I'll catch a Zappa family concert with you. If only to be regaled with all your Zappa stories.

Turns out I'm not going to be able to catch the Grandmothers show next week. Pretty bummed.

Here's 30 minutes from the 1973 Roxy performances. Catch it before ZFT lawyers find out about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnDqHppWS_Q

^^^ still on youtube as of today. Kinda surprising, or maybe the estate just thinks it's good advertising for when the DVD finally surfaces.

Here's one I had never heard before today - I was off the FZ bus by the time of Joe's Garage II and III - but this is "Watermelon in Easter Hay'-level beautiful, if only it weren't for Frank's stupid lyrics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ypZrkjgBQ

Just found out the 1981 show at the Palladium is on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDTXF63vug

I'm stuck in a Zappahole. Went straight from the '81 show into this 1973 Stockholm one. Video quality isn't great, but the show itself is a corker. I've heard it many times but watching it, even in low quality, is great. Franks outfit is something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynKe8BjIxk

Yeah, that Stockholm show is a fun one. Just discovered that recently myself.

It's so cool to watch after having had years of listening to the audio from it. And it seems so incredibly alive when compared to the '81 show which is technically better -- almost note perfect -- but a bit soulless.

Visuals add so much, esp. the Roxy footage, which is amazeballs. I'll try to watch that '81 show at some point, but while those guys are technically brilliant, that band and that setlist are really not up my alley.

The only time I ever saw him was 1974, and I wish more I had more than the vague, fuzzy memories I'm left with. Damn teenage drinking. Kinda wish I would have seen him later too, although I was so far off the Zappatrain in the 80s.

One thing I like about YCDTOSAv2 is the relatively low "comedy" quotient -- just skip "Room Service" and the rest is gold.

Harvey Mandel is teh shit, I recommend all his 60s, 70s albums..

Live Zappa wise,I like shut up and play your guitar

This live “Dupree’s Paradise” from 1973 is sick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr6mTloYJJs

yeah Mandel was an early tapper, he does a lot of really cool things with sustain and stuff

is shut up and play your guitar all instrumental?

Yeah, except for a bunch of very small interstitial bits that also show up on Sheik Yerbouti and Läther.

sadly he does those little mini callouts briefly between tracks (fucking dude couldn’t keep his mouth shut) but musically yeah it’s just a bunch of guitar solos from various shows throughout the years

(Xp)

cool i can live w.that. i wonder if there's a master list of all instrumental only zappa somewhere, that would be ideal for me.

i wonder if there's a master list of all instrumental only zappa somewhere, that would be ideal for me.

Ooh, I was looking for any excuse to once again recommend a bunch of chamber groups doing FZ music in the wake of his death.

Omnibus Wind Ensemble — Music by Frank Zappa
Ensemble Ambrosius - The Zappa Album (FZ played on Baroque instruments, fan-fucking-tastic arranging and playing)
Le Concert Impromptu – Prophetic Attitude (woodwind quintet)

FZ the composer without the hassle of FZ the misanthrope/"comedian"

This live “Dupree’s Paradise” from 1973 is sick:

― brimstead

that whole concert is fantastic, there were significant changes in the band over the course of 73-74. particularly the ponty-era band, before napoleon murphy brock came on board they didn't really have a dedicated singer so there's a _lot_ of instrumental stuff. that whole stockholm '73 show is amazing, they do an early version of "bebop tango" in a medley with tunes that would become bits of "greggery peccary" and "cucamonga" called "farther oblivion". parts of the show (but not the whole show) are on the beat the boots release "piquantique".

surprised at how much i like bongo fury, maybe i shouldn't be bc cap'n beefy is hollerin' all over these jams, like practically screaming, it rules, but also "carolina hardcore ecstasy" is one of the best-written frank zappa songs i've ever heard, and i don't think much of zappa as a "song"writer

xpost - wmc - thanks for that list, I would be very interested to hear takes on his work in that context.

Pretty sure I've recommended this in some other non-comedy Zappa context, but Ed Palermo Big Band Plays the Music of Frank Zappa.

WmC, I wasn't familiar with Le Concert Impromptu, this is really cool, thanks. It's what I want Zappa's orchestral music to sound like, that often didn't coming from FZ himself.

Just to bring it back to live Zappa since I derailed, I just discovered that Ambrosius has a live album called Zappa Spielt Für Bach – Strictly Baroque. I get a thrill every time I hear their version of "RDNZL," much slower tempo and very elegant.

Dan, I like a lot of the Palermo FZ stuff – the first one from 1997 is much better than Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance, imo. Another FZ-performing chamber group is the Meridian Arts Ensemble, a brass quintet + drummer. I actually got to see them play live, which was great. Their CDs I always thought were poorly recorded, but I don't know how easy it is to record a brass ensemble.

damiano puliti's string arrangement of "alien orifice" (ugh, those fucking song titles) has long been a favorite of mine

oh man, you can't do that on stage anymore 2 is wonderful, thanks y'all

but the whole "Echidna's Arf" medley is too damn fast

they absolutely blast through it (and "village of the sun" too) but i kinda love it

slowed down "pygmy twylyte" is bliss

If you're listening on Spotify or another streamer, you probably haven't read the liner notes, so here's FZ's brief intro to this set:

This concert (does anybody remember the actual place or name of the recording engineer?) was fun, in spite of the fact that Napoleon Murphy Brock had pneumonia, and that Coy Featherstone, our lighting director, had been maced in the face by a guard at the Hotel Hesperia the night before.

The repertoire is basically the same as the Roxy album, however, the ultra-fast tempos on the more difficult tunes demonstrate what happens when a band has played the material for a year, and is so comfortable with it they could probably perform it blindfolded.

This band had a lot of skill (and miserable touring equipment – it was always breaking down, and full of hums and buzzes). In spite of this, it has remained one of the audience's favorite ensembles, and so, for those of you who crave what they used to do, we present a full concert with a little bit of everything – including stuff that you can't do on stage anymore.

lol that also provides context for one of the jokes in "room service"

That Helsinki concert is a long time favorite of mine. Kind of an amazingly crisp recording given the time and circumstances. The guitar solo from the One Size Fits All version of "Inca Roads" was taken from this concert. I'd say the concert overall is pretty much the pinnacle of his guitar playing.

i'm loving the läther material but i gotta say i may think sleep dirt on its own is the best frank zappa record, or at least it would be really hard to choose between it and one size fits all, but then again there are no lyrics on sleep dirt

Always surprised the live albums that came out featuring the '88 touring band (Make a Jazz Noise Here, Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life, Broadway the Hard Way, YCDTOSA 4/6) don't have more fans. I guess the lineup was one of the least flashy, had more of a big-band vibe than most other Zappa bands, less rock-oriented, but by far the tightest, and the recordings are the clearest of his career imo.

I nominated Make a Jazz Noise Here as essential in the second post in this thread...

... and I was shocked not to see it come up again when it's clearly his best live album!

I loved those '88 albums at the time, but don't listen to them much these days.

zappa in new york is great aside from the fact that it's lyrically signaling zappa's sex and toilet humor era, which... i'm gonna get at least as far as joe's garage or your are what you is, but i'm already very tired of the gay panic in "punky's whips" and the generally reprehensible vibe of "the illinois enema bandit" (the thing is that compositionally these songs both rule). glad they restored the original mix on the 2019 box set, because the digital reverb zappa added to it in the '80s sounds gross

i also listened to läther, which is fucking incredible

He was so good at fanfares (eg Regyptian Strut, theme from Run Home Slow, etc).

"greggery peccary" is sort of what i wish zappa were like lyrically all the time, just these go-nowhere contemptuous cartoon satires of the entertainment industry + making fun of hippies

i despise joe's garage, hateful piece of shit

otm

sounds right

ums btw if you've never heard sleep dirt you would probably enjoy it, the best tracks from the läther project arranged as a suite intended as a follow-up to hot rats. läther is, again, lyrics of the new york stuff and the sheik yerbouti tracks aside, great, but sleep dirt is in my experience the only of the compromised albums läther was divided into that really works on its own (studio tan is too much of the more mannered composed fusion stuff at once and orchestral favorites is too much of the modern classical cartoon stuff at once)

not heard of that, will check it out!


Zappa is very frustrating. tbh I kind of wish he wasn't so talented so I could just write him off, but his best stuff is really striking and unique

as a liberal snowflake i did not enjoy almost anything that happened on sheik yerbouti

god that "dupree's paradise" video upthread is so fuckin rad. jean-luc ponty shreds

yeah sleep dirt is great. you might want to avoid getting the version with vocals though.

However, with the CD release in 1991, Zappa added new overdubs to the recordings. Zappa asked singer Thana Harris to add vocals to three songs. Zappa had originally envisioned "Flambay", "Spider of Destiny", and "Time is Money" as part of his abandoned 1972 musical, Hunchentoot, and thus, these songs were originally intended to be sung.

yeah i'm not going anywhere near that. i'm v thankful for (most) of the 2012 reissues of the zappa catalog, they really removed the main obstacle to exploring zappa: how much he loved to ruin his own music

(i say most bc i had to look up specific box sets to find the original mixes of freak out!, uncle meat, cruising with ruben and the jets, and zappa in new york, so, like, it's still not easy)

lmao that when joe gets out of prison the world has been converted into a WELFARE STATE oh no!!!!!!

For some reason Bongo Fury has totally passed me by, will give that one a listen

ok my main problem with shut up 'n play yer guitar is there's too much guitar

Yeah, even though I’m a fan of his guitar playing by and large, I don’t find him interesting enough to sustain that kind of listening. I did just put on YCDTOSA 2 tonight, and although I still think some songs are played too fast, overall the first disc is really impressive.

I was still in my first flush of FZ adoration when Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar came out (I bought it in its original mail-order incarnation as 3 individual LPs) but I can imagine it being wearing. The followup set of solos, Guitar, is the one that tries my patience.

I just got tix to see Dweezil play highlights from Roxy and Elsewhere and Apostrophe, it’s the 50th anniversary of both. I’ve never seen him, and those are two of my favorite Zappa albums. I’m excited.

Any Zappa alum in the current Dweezil band?

The advertising didn’t say.

Listening to first disc of ‘Shut Up and Play yer Guitar’ last week, it occurred to me if Autechre was a prog rawk band it would probably sound something like this. There is not a straight beat on that whole record.

I was also watching one of those videos on the tube going over Zappa’s chord progressions and the time signature madness in some of those tunes, is pretty wild.