Is it pathetic to listen to "indie" when you are older than 20?

(Sorry, for not having a picture of Murdoch to post.)

I'm veering towards 21 right now. This kind of stuff used to be my bread and butter but I've just realized I haven't listened to b&s for several months. Well, I tried listening to the new album, but I got bored and had to turn it off.

but I'm American

and I hardly listen to indie anymore either, I just don't feel the need to say I'm too good for it

Any whiny indie.

Am I supposed to, what, turn into an alt. country fan or something because I liked Swans, The Pixies, and shit?

If, by assumption, bands like the Smiths, Weezer, REM, B&S, WTF ever are "whiny indie shit" then pray, is there really much difference between say, the Smiths or Red House Painters, and Simon and feckin Garfunkel?

I don't buy the "grow out of it" thing one iota. Rarrr. If anything, in growing up I'm getting a wider range of tastes (now liking a lot more dance music than I ever used to for eg) but I'm hardly sick of the Cocteau Twins or the Pixies...

Oh well, fine, that's me sorted then.

Why didn't you say so earlier?

"Now 40. That's when to draw the frickin' line."

You cheeky young whippersnapper - why I'd take my studded belt to you if I didn't need it to hold my tartan bondage trousers up!

What should I be listening to at my age? Free jazz? George Formby? All suggestions welcome.

The heartbreak of being a geezer at 38. Wait 'til you're 50 when your prostate is so swollen you have to piss three times a night.

Uri: You asked, "Don't you just find as you get older that music in general loses its importance by leaps and bounds every year?" No, I don't, but I understand what you're saying. Try a variation on your example: Should visual art lose its importance by leaps and bounds as you get older? If anything, I appreciate painting, sculpture, literature, plays and opera more as I get older. Why would music -- even indie or rock music -- necessarily be different? I think your comment feels intuitively reasonable because music seems more like a processed commodity -- and more like a processed commodity designed to be consumed exclusively by young people -- than does painting, sculpture, plays and so forth. But music doesn't have to be a commodity, at least no more so than, say, visual art. And the fact that a given song or album is aggressive, catchy, rousing, bass-heavy and so forth shouldn't disqualify it as art.

But again, there’s clearly something to your point. I would feel silly bopping along to the latest Christina Aguilera song. I don’t feel silly listening to Iron & Wine, The Shins, Howe Gelb, Low, Calexico or Bloc Party (or Miles Davis, for that matter). Go figure.

Visual arts are a completely different experience. And painting, sculpture, etc. are not becoming "like water" as music is, as David Bowie put it. I appreciate visual arts for a much shorter amount of time and I bet you are the same way. If you have a book of Famous Masters or perhaps your favorite Design Annual, how long do you look at any given image? The paintings/scultpures in your house? I look at something for 15 minutes tops, which is, like, maybe half an album.

no way, i love and enjoy all these things. just as much as i ever did. except puppies. fuck a puppy.

Also, why's 20 the cutoff date? That's awfully young. Is "indie" strictly the province of high school and early college?

Personally, "indie rock" was a high school phase for me. My favorite bands were Yo La Tengo, Pavement, etc. And there were maybe two other kids in my high school who listened to that stuff.

By the time I reached college age, I was getting more into electronic music, "weirder stuff", etc, and everyone who liked Dave Matthews and shit during high school switched over to Cat Power or whatever.

I have nothing but respect for 50 year old guys who come to indie shows, take photographs, hit on young indie girls, and still know how to have a good time.

To look at an in image in a book, I agree, 15 minutes is probably enough.

Otoh, if you only want to look at the paintings / sculptures in your house for 15 minutes at a time then I'd humbly suggest you've bought the wrong paintings / sculptures and that you probably ought to spend a bit longer looking at them before you buy them in future, to see whether your interest is going to wane that rapidly.

How old is "really old"?

But whose mind needs to have been blown, your own, the artist's, or both?

Uh, I'm still young, but that is exactly the opposite of what continues to happen to me; that is, I get more and more excited about music the more I listen to it. Tastes certainly change, but music always returns-- I'm listening to two old Frankie Knuckles tracks right now, and I spent last night smoking the illy and poring over old classic rock, bossanova and house records that were bequeathed to me and lf. If I can't do that with my wife/kids/friends when I'm 'older,' then why would I want any of those things? Most of my friends feel the same way, and while that might be a result of going to a 'music' school, I somehow doubt it.

Finally, I still listen to indie, but my listening is quite selective-- older B&S, Bee Thousand, Sonic Youth's noisier records...etc.

PS-- If you ever get a chance to go to the Wellesley, Massachusetts, town dump, it is a fucking gold mine. A friend from that horrid area of the country swears it's the only thing that makes him happy to visit his folks.

I wonder if Mr. Grout would come?

R.I.P. Hero of mine.

But Maidenhead's bloody miles from Portland, Doc!

If you do ever venture into darkest Dorset 'though, do please let me know (and if you'd like to venture into darkest Dorset, you could always send me copy of your demo like you threatened promised to do once before; and I'll see if I can hustle up some interest 'round the pubs and clubs of sunny Weymouth for you).

no, no mountains of garbage actually. there is a shack at one of the dumps here and people unload still useable stuff there for people to take for free. i get good books and records from time to time. found a pristine copy of here come the warm jets not that long ago. i needed a copy. they have volunteers who work there and everything.

I think that misses the point. Regardless of how long you look at visual art, you don't feel "pathetic" for appreciating it when you're older than 20. Why is it different for music, indie or otherwise? If your point is that music requires more time to appreciate, and you have less and less time as you get older, then I agree, but it’s a fairly uncontroversial point. It’s a reflection of the fact that you have your priorities properly in order, but doesn’t suggest that listening to indie music when you're older than 20 is "pathetic."

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Scott: “I still wanna know why going into a record store is an unsettling experience. Maybe therapy is in order?”

Maybe. I don’t have a great answer. I’m 38, and I feel a little funny browsing through the stacks at a store populated by 20 year olds with black fingernails and piercings.

I would feel silly bopping along to the latest Christina Aguilera song. I don’t feel silly listening to Iron & Wine, The Shins, Howe Gelb, Low, Calexico or Bloc Party (or Miles Davis, for that matter)

oh ffs! stop worrying about what other people think, aargh. what matters is that i feel MISERABLE when i listen to bloc party, iron & wine and the shins because they're shit, and i feel HAPPY when i listen (and indeed 'bop along') to xtina, especially the new single which is maybe the best thing i've heard this year, so if you're not listening to it you are missing the fuck out.

Of course they are wrong too. The correct answer is it is never pathetic to listen to indie, regardless of age. On the other hand it is pathetic for people over the age of 15 to listen to hip-hop or teenybopper pop.

gee, well, indeed

So, less than 2 years 'til I can officially be considered a curmudgeon then.

Uh..

Christ I hope whoever wrote that isn't serious.

an ILM rockism/popism discussion, yesterday.

if by "okay," you mean "not beyond pathetic," then no.
if by "okay," you mean "right" over "wrong," I don't judge that way.