I'm Not In ILM Hiding, I Just Don't Love Music Any More!

Welcome to my last year and a half. ;-) The trick -- which I'm still getting fully used to -- goes like this:

* never feel like you always have to care
* either resist or work around settings and places where you feel like you have to care anyway (ILM has admittedly been sometimes difficult to appreciate as a result, for me at least)
* when you feel comfortable or can enjoy yourself, you will -- don't bother forcing it

Your love of music is not predicated on calling this the best year ever or refusing to listen to anything after 1960 or whatever. It's just how you feel about it.

Nooooooooo! Say it ain't so Kate!

And then, when you've accidentally purged yourself of all things musical, something amazing will seep into your brain against your volition. And your heart will soar, and all will be good again.

Most days I can't be bothered to give myself over to a song, much less an album. To get really wrapped up in it. It's gotten worse since I actually have a real, non-temp, non-freelance, non-Hollywood bullshit office job for the first time in years. Yeah, it makes me sad. There's just a few times a year that I spend the whole day listening to records, going through my collection and pulling stuff I haven't heard in years. And it used to be like that nearly every day.

(*not guaranteed.)

I have always got more excitement spending an afternoon rooting through crates of records in charity shops than standing watching a band.

But I'll agree that it's getting alot harder to enjoy live shows. Especially in NYC where noone wants to let on that anything excites them... there's such an apathetic vibe at shows that sometimes I'd rather stay at home and listen to my CDs.

Also, one amazing show can really pull you out of a funk; cex/grand buffet/baby did it for me last year. But don't go to any shows unless you know they'll be amazing.

Never go see shows in New York. If you live there, move.

One can agree that it's always been great and still be dreadfully exhausted.

* ska / roots reggae

* Goran Bregovik style gypsy bands from Romania etc.

* Steeleye Span's spooky folk rock.

* Los Cucas

It's not that I don't get very bored with these as well. It's just that when I get tired of them, I'm normally ready to plunge back into electronica, garage, hip-hop or whatever. But these always seem to pull me out of "I'm sooo bored, I don't want to listen to anything" mode.

A bit extreme.

I don't think loving music and going to shows are necessarily that intertwined. Whomever said live shows were too expensive and smokey and loud and lacking the pithy sonic nuances that initially attracted you to the music in question was spot-on. It's still fun to go see an artist you love, but that gets tougher and tougher in this city where decent venues are dropping like flies. Also, not every artist's music is well served or vastly improved in the live setting (I don't think Hip Hop is that great in a live setting, personally speaking, as the rappers usually tend to slur or go breathless and riddle proceedings with tired exhortations). Another example is that I adore the latest Calexico record, but I can't imagine it'd be as enjoyable in a live context, given its subtleties (which would invariably be lost in the confusion of a club gig). I remember seeing the Cocteau Twins in a completely packed Roseland Ballroom, and it was one of the most uncomfortable concerts I'd ever attended (everyone was squeezed in elbow-to-elbow and sweating like hogs and losing the subtleties of the Cocteaus' warblings in the crappy acoustics of the then-barnlike ballroom). I think you could swear off going to live shows for good and still be able to sustain an ongoing appreciation for music

Tis a ridiculous statement to make. As Alex said, it has gotten tougher to see shows these days. However it doesn't only occur in NYC. A similar thing might happen if you see a show in any other city (like L.A., Detroit or Boston). Being born and bred in NY, I've seen most shows there. Amazing ones like Pulp at Irving Plaza, Blur at the Roseland Ballroom and Siouxsie and the Banshees at Roseland come to mind.

Anyway, it's a fact that people would plan their vacations to come to NY to see someone they liked. The venues are more accessible, the artists would schedule more dates (as NY has always been a major market to hit to become successful).

I think you could swear off going to live shows for good and still be able to sustain an ongoing appreciation for music

Tis true that you don't need to attend shows anymore, but there is something to be said about being surrounded by a group that are there to enjoy the same group/singer that you are.

Kate, I think that music is an inherent part of you. But if you are feeling so burned out, perhaps tis time to dive into another hobby, and recharge your batteries?

Chill out for a bit. Some people take music too seriously and it can hurt how they perceive it. You get burnt out from trying to listen to music. Throw all but five CDs in your closet for 3 months. And then, when you're thoroughly sick of The Breeders, come back to us.

I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a gig. The last one I went to, I loved the band, the music was fine, but it was too loud too crowded too smokey and too... well, I just don't enjoy going to gigs any more! Is this just a symptom of getting old? Or is this a symptom of some kind of malcontent that I can actually do something about?

Its just hating stupid smokey clubs. I love music, but I dislike going to crowded shows. I do more all-ages, non-smoking venues these days. Its not being old, its just enjoying breathing.

It wasn't a joke, I really did just get that Ear etc. album and I was talking to my temporary boss Elliot about Spacemen 3. He loves them and was very surprised I'd never heard them or Spiritualized. Elliot used to manage (or maybe still does) someone who was in either spiritualized or Spectrum, Richard something maybe?

Then we had a big discussion about drones and My Father My King and the opening bit on Unwound's 'Leaves Turn Inside You'.

Yesterday we were talking about web forums and how the Welsh Music Foundation should have a good one and I mentioned ILX and then today I said hey look Kate who posts loads has this name Masonicboom.

So I wasn't teasing, honest.

(I'll go back and read this thread now.)

Jim is otm... I used to take gigs seriously and never want to miss one by, like, anyone I was interested in. I used to not even drink at them! It's just like going out to a club though, you need to be in the mood.

To reiterate what a lot of people have said: it's OK not to take music so seriously for a bit. Even your favourite records don't have to move you each time you play them... a lot of the time I play music as an anti-silence device. Sometimes, I'm not even really listening to it. That's fine... at some point something will come along, snag my ear, pull me in, and it'll start all over again.

Being in a band doesn't help I think because it can feel like your entire social life revolves around music one way or another (I'm sure this must be even worse for those in bands or writing about music professionally!).

I've had a couple of quite long periods where my interest - particularly in the current scene - has waned dramatically (the mid-late '80's and again in the mid '90's) but something's always come along eventually to rekindle it (the first time was hearing The Pixies for the first time, the second was when the BBC showed a documentary called "The Artist Formerly Known As Captain Beefheart").

My advice is relax, enjoy what you are doing and wait - something will come along that'll spark it all off again.

Especially in NYC where noone wants to let on that anything excites them... there's such an apathetic vibe at shows that sometimes I'd rather stay at home and listen to my CDs.

Man, I've been feeling the same way for awhile and I thought I was just getting old. I love loud visceral rock music live, other stuff not so much. But even then, a lot of the time I feel like I'm standing too long, through a band or two I don't much like in a crowded room of people who could mostly care less, to have a slightly disappointing experience. Boy, is that cynical.

I also miss the smokiness in NYC, everything feels so clean. It's rock n roll, people!

That said, I'm having dinner at Maxwell's tonight and might actually stay for Bettie Serveert.

I'm from Baltimore, and I'm living there again now, and music means a whole lot more to me now than it did when I was living in New York and working as a club door guy. I'd much rather be provincial and see shows in warehouses and art galleries and playhouses and church halls every couple of weeks than live at the center of everything and run around to shows every night.

Anyway, Tike did a lot of musical things; He went out four times a week for about 4 years straight, he promoted gigs, played a lot of live shows, he wrote a few articles here and there, and finally he did a radio show that was incredibly well received within the musical micro-ghetto that he happened to inhabit at that particular time.

Tike really loved his radio show, and probably took it a bit more seriously than he should have. Eventually another guy with more record money completely jacked his format and that is when Tike decided to say fuck it and he burned out. He hated everything involved with electronic music and stopped listening and instantly dropped off the face of the earth as far gigs are concerned.

This was a really odd time for this to happen because his scene cred in his little micro-ghetto had never been higher. He had all the right label owners *asking* him for demos. He had it all lined up to just run the game, and for some reason when that moment arrived all saw through everything and everyone and the magic disappeared.

For a person who centered their whole life on music like Tike did (to the point that people who knew him associate him with EM the way people associate Joe Lewis with boxing), it was a lot like a messy divorce or a death in the family. He quit his job; he traveled around Canada for a while, sold half his record collection, and every last piece of gear in his studio. He bought a jazz guitar and listened to nothing but rockabilly and old rock. He spent the next two joyously jobless months sitting around his house playing guitar, reading books, snowboarding, and taking Kung Fu lessons.

Tike never lost his love of music, just the particular genre that he was most personally invested in as far as scene cred goes. He had to drop off the face of the earth and isolate himself from the scene and culture in general. He just bought old records and listened to them for no other reason than the fact that they were fun to listen to.

Eventually he started listening to post-punk and got dragged into the Disco-punk fad of 2002 via ILM. It all started with Arthur Russell and then it was Acid House, and then it was all over. Tike started listening to electronic music again, but this time without any of the politics or bullshit that tainted his love in the first place. He rebuilt his studio and is working again.

Somewhere in this weird yearlong convoluted journey he found his personal voice and started to do things the way he wanted to see them done. The jaded bitterness left, and now he is really fascinated with life again. He is probably in the best mental and creative frame of mind that he has ever been in.

So the moral of the story is:

A. No decision is ever permanent, so don't be afraid to slag the entire universe off if you aren't feeling it. You can always return on your own term when you are ready.

B. Life sometimes throws you weird curves that don't seem to make sense at the time, but those little bumps are what actually prepare you for what it is that you need to do. Clichés are the best thing on earth because sometimes you do need to take a step back before you can take two steps forward.

Silence is delicious.

Right. I haven't been to a show in fifteen years, mostly because I'm married to a man who hates live music. (One big problem with being married to a man nineteen years older than me: He's seen it all, so I've missed out on a lot of normal growing up things. Oh, well.)

I got out of touch with music for seven or eight years after I married. I got back in touch because of two things: 1: ILM, and 2: Emusic.

(OK, fine. Bubba Sparxxx and Jean Grae, too. Happy?)

Hang around children. Listen to what they listen to. When you listen to their music, make sure they're in the room with you.

I haven't read thoroughly, but I've kind of skimmed through. A couple of instant things...

Never go see shows in New York. If you live there, move.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, lost it at the laundrette. I got to the point where I never wanted to go to another gig in NYC. So I started going to gigs in places like Philly instead. It was a much better experience, being surrounded by real *fans* rather than industry losers.

And then I moved to London. Yeah, that was smart.

Fall in love with someone whose taste in music is very different from yours

Ha ha, I did. Perhaps this made it worse, because HSA accuses me of being such a music snob. But then he'll listen to my music collection and pick out the most snobbish records and love those. (OK, that's not true - the two CDs of mine he loves the most seem to be Destiny's Child and Mogwai.)

I think the gigging thing *is* an age thing. Sorry to report, but I *do* feel like I've grown up. The frightening thing was, it wasn't a slow process, it just happened OVERNIGHT. Six months ago, I was 22 and I had been 22 for 10 years. And now suddenly I'm 33 and feeling it. I physically *can't* stand through a two hour performance in a loud and smokey room.

Perhaps I've got to learn to enjoy a different way of experiencing music. Last night, HSA took me to see a mate's band at the South Bank Centre. A nice, grown-up venue. For a start, we were sitting down. There was no smoking. The volume levels were those to be expected for classical music. They had some interesting arty films playing while they performed. I immensely enjoyed the experience. The second band, well, they really started to drag. The sound was really trebbly and unpleasant. HSA started to fidget. About halfway through the show, he looked at me and said "shall we go home?" And so we did.

I've spent more than half my entire life (my entire adult life) Being In Bands and Making Music. Is it any wonder that if you become disillusioned with making music, that you lose your passion for the medium as a whole?

I just feel burned out. I don't *want* to have that kind of passion for a band ever again to the point where it excludes everything else that is important in life. HSA was telling me about an interview he did, in tandem with two other soundartists, one of whom he has since majorly fallen out with. The interviewer asked "is there anything in life that is more important than music?"

HSA's friend answered "My child"
HSA's (now) enemy answered "If there is, I haven't found it yet"
HSA answered "Love"

My answer was always "if there is, I haven't found it yet". I think now maybe I have to explore the things that *are* more important than music.

Especialy if you invest that kind of passion in someone *else's* music. There have been bands (not mine own) that have been my entire life. And I really, ultimately, didn't get the return for the emotional investment. Maybe I need to stop expecting so much from it, and just take it for what it is. Nice emotional wallpaper. Dunno...

I did the same silly thing. I started really hating the scene in my hometown (Toronto), mostly because of it being the centre of the music biz and shows were full of record label marketing types yakking at the bar and not paying attention (I used to be one of them, and it scared me). Whenever I would see gigs in other, smaller cities, I enjoyed them so much more. Plus, Toronto has a horrible problem with people just standing at shows, arms folded, effectively saying "impress me" - now jokingly referred to as a dance called 'The Toronto' (I'm sure it's the same in NY, etc).

>I was 22 and I had been 22 for 10 years. And now suddenly I'm 33 and feeling it

Good lord this is exactly the same for me - just turned 33. I can't deal with standing around for a long time. Although at least the smokey thing changed in Toronto with the new by-laws - but I couldn't get my head around seeing shows at, say, The Horseshoe with no smoke! Although deep down I agree with Scott M and feel that rock shows should be dirty and smokey! I've been going to a lot of gigs in London because it's all new to me, but I'm already starting to get bored again. I'm now only going to shows that I REALLY want to see.

This thread freaked me out a bit, because I was feeling EXACTLY the same way recently. I think ILM has played a part of it, being a music journo, and also moving to London - I read the music section in Time Out and think: Oh christ I want to see that and that and that and I should see that and that, etc. And then I get depressed.

Maybe I've seen too many shows, maybe I've listened to too many records, I dunno. All I can say is that it does get better - you just need a break from it. Like Mike Taylor, I was big into electronic music about 10 years ago (even DJ'd at big clubs/raves), then one day just decided I hated the whole thing and couldn't keep up so I stopped. Same with indie - I was just overwhelmed by the volume of stuff that I *should* be hearing and it made me feel inadequate somehow.

I think the key is to realize that you will NEVER be able to be on top of 'all things music', and just be happy with the music you have, and the new stuff you just happen across that catches your ear.

Another suggestion: intoxication. Find a free night, get yourself a nice bottle of wine (or whatever your preferred state-altering method is), grab one of your fave OLD records, a fave RECENT record, and a record that you haven't heard but has come highly recommended. Consume toxins. Listen. Did that last night and listened to Talk Talk's Spirit of Eden on the headphones (inspired by earlier thread), and it was magnificent.

Wow. Long post. Back to work...

Really? I think music is also one of the most amazing things when you are sad.

That is a nice suggestion. But you forget. I'm old. My liver is packing it in. If I drink a bottle of wine, or the required amount of alcohol to get me properly inhibition-free intoxificated, I am out of commission for the next day.

This has also affected my show-going enjoyment in a big way. I used to ignore all the annoying things by getting drunk. It's also easier to be enthusiastic and LOVING IT when yer drunk. It's harder for me to enjoy gigs sober. It really is, and that's not just me being an old alcoholic.

But at the same time, the sheer volume can be exhausting, and the weird need to feel able to be passionate about everything, vs. the desire sometimes to say "Meh. It's OK. What are we geting so worked up about?"

It's a double-edged sword.

Is this what the problem boils down to? No-one *should* have to listen to anything. I know the feeling but come on. I'm only 21 but went through a period of reading evry music mag I could get my hands on and buying every new single cos I felt like I *should* be somehow *aware* of what was New. Then I go through periods of guilt for listening only to old stuff, or only soul, or only ironic stuff.

But my big new thing is this: IT DOESN'T MATTER.

That I feel the need to say 'it doesn't matter' so vehemently shows how lousy it can be.

Not ever having heard Franz Ferdinand is liberating.

Do NOT listen to Ed. Radio 4 is evil. You'll be wearing a cardigan in no time if you keep that up!

Yup, but it only matters in ways that make it pleasant: community, friendship, enjoyment, taking the piss.

The need to be 'up to date' is no need at all.

That goes for everything in life and life itself.

Nathalie, I hear you about the job and the relationship eating all your time, but that doesn't explain it all in my case. I could always make time for music.

Ain't that the truth!

That's funny; the Knitting Factory is actually the club where I worked door, and I used to get my lunch at the Pakistani Tea House when I worked day shifts. So I guess the Knit is actually what put me off live shows for a minute. Or maybe I was just bitter over all those bounced paychecks.

With shows: I go to some rock concerts (where you stand around), some improvised music shows (where there some chairs to sit on) and this week i went to see xenakis (with russell haswell doing laptop nonsense with one of xenakis programs): my first classical show (comfy chairs). I know I enjoy music far more than I did when i was 13/14 but i don't over do it, partly bcz its difficult for me with my studies (and also why I don't go to shows every night of the week).

I think the act of realising this is the most profound thing in history.

Of course it's nonsense...

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/hatedmusic.html

It seems to be about a lot of the stuff on this thread and, frankly, I think its rather good. About the *nicest* piece of music journalism I've seen in ages...