Taking Sides: Bill Drummond v. Julian Cope

Bill Drummond is a cynical old fuck. Julian Cope is a genuine nutter.

1) Your criteria for judging them is, as usual, completely fucked.
2) Even by your own criteria, when put in proper perspective (Bill Drummond is *not* trying to make a buck?) it's still Julian Cope by a mile.

it was really gross like trying to get into a bon jovi concert or something.

julian cope is a fake and a phoney.

bill drummond, is, obviously the nutter.

anyone that buys the jc propaganda, i'm not going to bother arguing with!!!

Can you imagine how many low-level nutters want to "review/interview JC for their fanzine" as just another blag? I'd hate to be JC's publicist, it must be the most thankless job on earth.

oh right.

you know what kate? don't be so personal. i'm a low level nutter? whatever. at least i'm not a 32 year old child catcher...

ay?

I can think of seventy reasons why bill drummond is fantastic.

70 reasond Bill drummond?

1) The Man (LP)
2) The Manager (rant)
3) JAMMS
4) KLF
5) burning a million quid (I have a theory on this btw...)
6) Penkiln burn
7) 45 the book
8) ... (carry on do...)

("fear loves this place" at least should be added to the cope plus list)

6. Signing Brilliant and recognising the genius of Pete Waterman early on.

I just wanted to requote that.

1) For the hypocracy
2) What the fuck is a childcatcher? (HSA is 36 if that's what you're implying)

Why the fuck SHOULD Julian Cope and his publicist "give you access"?

And does his not "giving you access" invalidate his music? I don't think so.

But I'm not arguing with you and your petty nutterhood, I've got work to do.

JC List
1) Killimanjaro
2) Wilder
3) good half of "everyone wants to shag.."
4) Fried
5) WSYM (single)
6) The krautrock revival started with himself and you know it...
7) Head-on the book
8) the modern antiquarian (that's too big a project to do to seem 'a bit nutty')
9) head heritage website
10) how I got up to ten without even trying...
11) Over to you guys...

ha ha. let's hope it's not yer 'music'.

6. Signing Echo and the Bunnymen and the Teardrops and thinking their debut singles sucked.

... a bit like Krautrocksampler then?

re: 7) Subtract one for bringing Gary Glitter back via the Timelords (not his fault exactly, I give you...)

My take on "I godda keep my despair"
Jesus and Mary Chain reckoned it was "I gotta keep my distance"
and JC's "I'm gonna get my kicks there"....

and "When I saw Mushroom head, I was born, and I was ...." (he never quite says dead...
became "One eyed soul, mushroom head, I was born and I was dead"

erp.

no dice. show evidence or forget it.

OK, 10 and 11 are empty, but why 8?

surface noise, Evidence? Even Sonny would take that one as a given...

Nah, not necessarily so, in fact, you could say that KILL BILL OST and Andy Votel has done mroe for the k-rock cause than JC in recent years. Most kids don't even remember JC.

With all due respect, you're all talking balls

I'm thinking more when only J.Rotten had anything to say re: Can, and I remember all those ads in NME back in the day with strange Krautrock album imports. I believe to be true the parts in JC's book saying "you can get the majority of these cheaply in second-hand shops", but it didn't stay that way for long...

Specially when he'd buy then (again) when he saw them. greedy swine...

Why the fuck SHOULD Julian Cope and his publicist "give you access"?

And does his not "giving you access" invalidate his music? I don't think so.

PS. I just wanted to see the amon duul film he was showing. I couldnt give a shit about 'getting access' - wtf? go back to drowned in sound. oops. forgot. no longer 'indie' are they?

if we knew the answer to that we wouldn't be here.

oops, sorry, offtopic.

Number of Julian Cope books I own and rate: Three
Number of Bill Drummond books I own and rate: One (and I'm not even sure I rate it)

Julian Cope wins again!

haa ahha haaaaaa ha haaaaaaaaaa hahahaha haaaaa

oh yeah,
10) going "haa ahha haaaaaa ha haaaaaaaaaa hahahaha haaaaa" in articles...

Only when it doesnt advance yer music career. Anyhoo I'm not a journalist just someone who loves music ...

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION...

I say John Lydon.

(No, the whole thread is about how I just like poking Doomie with a sharp stick because it's fun, and how Doomie likes being poked with a sharp stick because it reinforces his love/hate thing with ILX.)

Oh yeah, and Bill Drummond is STILL a prick.

In other news, Bill Drummond remains prick indefinitely.

Julian Cope came on stage looking like a halloween fairy and read a prose poem in a slightly pompous voice about some kind of ancient and mighty stone wall with mystical powers.

They played one 'song' which lasted for about an hour. The witching hour I think.

:-)

Their "White 1" album has JC on it doing that song and it's fantastic.

Now I've seen to Sonny's burning
Someday I think I'll cut him down
But it can get so cold in here
And he gives off such an evil heat.
Flame on! Flame on!
Hail my incubatic incubator.

Now pay witness to Sonny's burning
Warming the damp and rotten seed
Warming the damp and rotten seed
That blooms into the DEMON FLOWER
Now both fire and flowers consume me.
Flame on! Flame on!

Evil heat is running through me
Flame on! Flame on!
Sonny's burning pits into me
Flame on! Flame on!
Sonny's burning holes into me
Don't interrupt! Don't interrupt!
Flame on! Flame on!

(The Birthday Party)

I like both BD and JC's work, on record and in print, btw. I think Drummond would get my nod, but I wish my favourite Cope record - his first solo LP - was in print.

Sample lyric:

"oh motherfucker/she was a cocksucker/went down on their ding-dong/she drank for her sing-song". "

1) He defends *pop* music like no other.
2) It is inspirational when reading his books on the train.
3) I don't give a shit about his music but can't get enough of his books.
4) I have never knowingly heaheard/read Julian Cope and it feels liberating. Living within spitting distance to Liverpool I would prefer to ignore at least one 'Liverpool is the centre of the musical universe' story. Although I am disproportionatley interested in the 'scene' involving all those people, despite not having heard/wanting to hear the music.

er, possibly.

My favourite hilarious bit from Jules: where he describes the games 'sock' and 'door', and the unforgettable afternoon tripping where he thinks Balfe(?) is a lion and runs around him for several hours, cooling his feet by instructing people to pour milk and cornflakes on the carpet as he zooms by.

If only. The problem is, he means it, maaaaaaan.

Sigh.

The problem is, this thread is the most entertaining thing on ILX for a while. I don't know if it's ILX that's messed up, or me.

This being one of the fine threads that first got me into ILX. Reads like a play now...

"Chet-vah Buddha, Cherra-loopiz
Chet-vah Buddha, Cherra-loopiz
Chet-vah Buddha, Cherra-loopiz
Chet-vah Buddha, Cherra-loopiz"

When in fact the actual lyric goes:

"J'ai mal aux dents!
j'ai mal aux pieds aussi!
J'ai mal aux dents!
j'ai mal aux pieds aussi!"

Yeah, I know it's confusing, this thing Cope apparently never heard about, this language called FRENCH.

OK, I don't expect Cope to be fluent or even remember his schoolboy French lessons, but whatever happened to book editors? "Chet-vah Buddha, Cherra-loopiz" ... Jeez!

Unless he wrote a good portion of it when he was 16? Hmmm.

p.s. "Chempal Buddha" got taken as the 'alternate' title according to the Faust box set. It was only about the rhythm of the words anyway...

this is a great thread, it's like the best, and the worst of the best of ILM. Plus, no c*l*m.

For some reason, when I contemplate bill drummond today, I feel this powerful antipathy, bordering on actual hatred. The feeling is vague, but real. I don't know why I feel this way.

when I contemplate julian Cope, I have feelings of warmth and love because of all the happiness and joy I've had from his great records and books.

OMg I am a fucked up hippie.

That's the one in '45' and it's a fine book. I got mine in a remaindrs shop. (There's a 7" square version, and a 'paperback' one.)

There's also a 12" version, with the unedited versions of all the pieces from the book! (though not available in shops)

a belated aside on Kate's huffy dismissal: compare Coler & Richardson's output by themselves (one novelty single of the theme to computer game Lemmings) to Cauty (eg The Red Red Groovy, 1987: What The Fuck Is Going On?, A Huge Evergrowing Brain That Rules From The Centre Of The Ultraworld, Fuck The Fucking Fuckers) and Drummond's (eg Peru/The Lonely Spy, Prime Mover, The Man, 1987, Gimpo, The Blizzard King) output without them, and claims of "the engineer did it all!" start to look more than a bit feeble. They were employed for their technical ability, not for their powers of creative instigation.

maybe because while being smart and intelligent, he's basically a son of a bitch?

I think Mr. Drummond is a cynical old businessman who has systematically ripped off artists, ripped off ideas, etc. etc. etc. and generally just taken the piss.
I don't see why that's so terrible. Actually, I do understand the viewpoint -- however, pardon the rhetoric but really, isn't the only original thought is that which is the source of all thought? That everything since the original source of all thought has been derivative of each subsequent thought, and that even the strangest notions we create are (often unwittingly) culled from several different sources? Don't all musicians get their ideas from somewhere else and aren't they all inspired by other sources, consciously or unconsciously? Isn't authenticity is a fictional concept because everything's really a replica of something else (and eventually replications seem to become original when they honestly aren't)? It's probably a pretty crap argument as it doesn't really justify anything, but I feel it's worth noting. (Although very belated.)

You're insane, Walter. Seek professional help at once.