Why and when did hip-hop start middle-class guilt trippin?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

modern-day hip-hop -> rags to riches stories X 1000. from demo-slinging hustler mc to fish-eye lens video starring mega-guest mc. the rise from nothin' to everythin' is hella hella quick. middle-class depiction in films = america's real prison ("you nothing but a drone, brother. you already dead" = american beauty in a nutshell) as life is suburbia + SUV + minimalls +++++. so maybe it's understandable that hip-hop's uber-masculine roaming wanderer persona would flatly reject that kinda lifestyle (or the good parts of the sex revolts to thread) as it is certainly stifling. or it can be portrayed that way at least. but has hip-hop always been nervous around middle-class amerikkka? i don't think so -> beastie boys, ll cool j, run dmc, etc., all seemed comfortable off the streets and in fact there's almost a bravado there about their ability to thrive/mack/fuck in any social situation. in any event, somewhere along the line hip-hop meant the underunderunderclass or the upperupperupperclass and i wanna know why and when that happened. (my guess is that it could correlate with the rise of hoopsters opting out of the ncaa game early or skipping it altogether -> mega-quick upside, ya know)(then again i'm increasingly convinced that it could've started gaining steam once the fresh prince of bel-air producers started having will and carlton swapping cable-knit sweaters)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I think hip-hop's middle-class sensibility has metasized in the past five years or so with the explosion of midwest rappers; Nelly is like the most middle-american rap superstar ever. And then you've got Pharrell rocking skater clothes and the weird general acceptance of Justin Timberlake. Also, there's labels like Koch, which seems like the place where rappers end up after being huge and rich for a minute but then settle in with their comfortable little niche audiences (ex: BG).

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Consolidated's two most overt hip-hop albums (Friendly Fascism and Play More Music) absolutely reek of middle-class, hand-wringing, White American Guilt. In fact, it probably never got worse than on Adam Sherbourne's solo album on the track 'Refuse To Be A Man'.

Still, I liked them a lot - as did my at-the-time-unborn daughter when I took the ex-wife to see them in Glasgow judging by way she was moving.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

does anybody rap about being in high school anymore? did will smith really ruin the mundane/everyday rap for everybody? and by mundane/everyday i mean story-songs about being a goofy kid and the believably boring things that happen to goofy kids. those are some of the best rap songs on earth. is their a modern-day version of Special Ed out there that i don't know about. mebbe lil' bow wow. but i'm not thinking THAT young.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Scott: Buck 65?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

De La Soul.

― old man, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

nick cannon.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never heard Buck 65! do i need to hear Buck 65?

De La, yes, exactly, they were charming, but not recent.

is the Nick Cannon album any good, sterl? does he have an album? is it better than Lizzie's?

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

You need to hear Buck 65.
In terms of mundane/high school there are songs about winning the 1993 Nova Scotia Provincial Championships in baseballand another about being a high school KISS fan.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Haven't heard the new one but start with Man Overboard.

Note to AMG lackeys here: only one of his albums has a review.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

best hi-school rap evah... ghostface - child's play

'those were the days, made faces in school plays
paper trays, city wide test, made half a days
shooting puppy water, might hump the pillow, dick a inch taller
stapleton bum nigga, I'll pop her cherry for her
fresh air fun, here's dun, alphabets, berets
jellies, bubble gum, soda tongue, too young to cum
then engage him with them candy rings
yo, I hit that shit, got jealous when she kissed rob
i broked her chicko's sticks'

― nebbesh (nebbesh), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

child's play, i like that. what album is that on? i might have it somewhere. he actually mentions chick 'o' sticks in that song!!?? wow, that's brilliant.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.atkinsoncandy.com/products/ChickOStick.tpl?cart=106683845438454

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

s'from "supreme clientele", scott.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

but i didn't know what a chick-o-stick was until today! thanks.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, i have that one. i'll have to dig it out. that's a great record! is that the last good wu record? (does the ghost dog soundtrack count?) but, i better shup up now, or Yancey's gonna bust a cap in my you know what. um, i will just say that the middle-class lifestyle has never been the epicenter of coolness. Heck, Ice T grew up in my decidedly waspy father's hood of Summit, New Jersey. They wear some mad lime green slacks around those parts. Of course, he was still black growing up in a waspy enclave, but that's another story.wait, Missy is a good middle-class rapper! how hard does she try to hide her middle-classness in print? i can't remember.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Some days I just don't understand the states. This is one of those days.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Puffy went to Howard, right?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i blame Bob Dylan. He was the first rapper who claimed to be a hobo. and leadbelly never really killed anyone. i think he went to Harvard.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe I sold Supreme Clientele. I sold Back For the First Time a couple of weeks after I got it, too. I must have the wrongest first impressions ever.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't it undie rap's job now to express the concerns of the silent majority? now, if only one of those dudes could come up with something as good as Done By The Forces Of Nature we would be in business.

( although, i don't know why i care since all i keep listening to lately is Above The Law's Livin' Like Hustlers which is brilliant. and no, i don't know if Cold 187um, Laylaw, Total K-Oss, or Go Mack went to Stamford )

― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Puffy went to Howard, right?

As far as I know, he did.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The middle class funds hip-hop and all it's clowns.

― dill, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

yay for the middle class!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

this topic is silly...

"beastie boys, ll cool j, run dmc, etc., all seemed comfortable off the streets"... that's cos they didn't do anything confrontational or political. hip hop has changed > back theof it was fun and wacky rhymes. if that's 'middle class'. well so be it.
but there are lots of MCs who are admittedly lower/middle class (well at least not 'rags'):
Common
Nas
Mos Def
Black Thought
Talib Kweli
Big Boi
Starang Wondah
Pharoahe Monch
P. Diddy
Busta Rhymes
Q Tip...

want me to keep going?

― paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"isn't it undie rap's job now to express the concerns of the silent majority?"

i thought that was eminem's job.

― sO, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Gram Parsons went to Harvard for a term. He came from a well-to-do background.

I don't know if he hid his background, but it certainly might have called into question his legitimacy (playing working-class music).

Anyways, my point is that this phenomenon is not confined to Hip-Hop. It's the old question of 'being legit' or not. There are probably examples of this in punk as well.

I guess when Hip-Hop became more politicsized and socially conscience in the late '80s, being a jee-whiz, middle-class rapper just wasn't legit enough.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

fresh prince jab OTM, Yanc3y, although I'd blame the House Party series in equal measures. i always thought gangsta was partly designed to alienate middle class fuxx like me, and it worked ('He's The DJ/I'm The Rapper'-inspired hiphop fandom detoured into alt.rock in 7th grade, where it would stay until release of 'Life After Death').

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What the fuck is "undie"?

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Not to rewind too much, but...from what I've read about Nelly and the Lunatics, aren't they as "street" as anyone? I mean, East St. Louis is pretty hardcore. Midwest =/= Middle Class. (The music isn't too hung up on gangsta-isms, but I've seen plenty of interviews where Nelly talks about how he'd probably be in jail if he wasn't in music, etc. I don't know if that's true or not, but he works the street/rags angle readily.)

But more to the point, hasn't mainstream macho rap been embracing middle-class life? The videos are full of SUVs, and there was that P.Diddy video a year or two ago all about the Bad Boy crew moving into a suburban subdivision. Seems to me there's at least as much aspiration to the middle class as there is antipathy toward it: walk like pimps, live like soccer moms.

― spittle, Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

undie=underground. I have yet to meet a person who actually uses this term though.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't met one either, which is why I'm not in jail

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

I think they are sooooooooooooo awsome!!!! They just keeping it real!!!!!!!!!! I like how they are all pimped out with there bling bling!!!!!!!!!!

― Alicia Dawn Grimes, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

*desperately tries to find connection between thread question and this google post*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

desperately?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I worry about these kind of things. For about five seconds.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.