The Greatest Lite Jazz Album of the Last Twenty Years

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What is it?

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

If you don't feel comfortable declaring something the greatest, just list your personal favorite.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

What the hey is considered 'lite jazz' these days? Norah Jones?? And... or...??

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 24 October 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Candy Dulfer's "Saxuality," which I have never heard, because of it's hilarious title.

Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah haha I'm think more people would be uncomfortable declaring something "lite."

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, WTF?

TS: Candy Dulfer 'Saxuality' vs. Sheila E. 'Sex Cymbal'

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Who knew John Tesh had such a strong sax drive? I always wondered about his saxuality.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe in 2003 people still find it hard to talk about sax.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

please shoot me now. in the head.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought Teshie was a pianist?
How do you have sax with a pianist?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe he uses a sax surrogate?

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if this pianist has ever had sax in a Volvo?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

His next CD will have him standing at his piano and will be titled "Erect Pianist".

Mikey D., Friday, 24 October 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

and will feature a guest trombonist

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

See I was thinking his next two would be:

John Tesh: Sax Crimes
John Tesh: Anal Sax

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Behath those Ken doll All-American looks he's actually a sax pervert, you see.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought his next one would be
John Tesh Cums in Your Ear While Spanking a Midget in a Leather Body Suit...for lovers

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

c'mon people! you can do better than that!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

All kidding aside: His debut album was called Tour de France!!!

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

let's stretch it to 25 or 30 years?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000I0RM.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

vahid (vahid), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I the only one that's really disturbed by that song title-> album cover??
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd800/d860/d86006d5u68.jpg

Geez, Tesh!

Is Dave Douglas' Freak In litejazz? It is kinda, anyways, right? It's swell!

Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The John Tesh Project: Sax With Children (And Grownups, Too!)
The John Tesh Project (featuring Eric Burdon): Sax With the Animals

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I just realized that the thing on his chest MIGHT not be a 6 year old boy after all, which is what it looked to me at first.

So, uhh, carry on!

Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

can we nominate the locus for when it all went pear-shaped?

http://www.allthingsdeep.com/Images/koolspirit.jpg

vahid (vahid), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd600/d664/d664883q8k8.jpg

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, come now, Joshua Redman (or Dave Douglas) is not lite jazz...

(of course, for now my working defintion of lite jazz is "people who aren't playing shit")

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000K44C.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

vahid (vahid), Friday, 24 October 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark Pitchfork redeemed my shitty day with the "Anal Sax" line. That is fucking hilarious. Well played, good man.

Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Friday, 24 October 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

If it were 25 years, I'd say Gaucho.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 24 October 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Probably the closest thing I have to lite jazz is Chick Corea's Light as a Feather but that's from the early 70s.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 24 October 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

'Mister Magic' by Grover Washington Jr

Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 24 October 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Tho' that's more like 25, 30 years ago, oh well

Is Lite jazz the same as smooth jazz? Man, I have to listen to a lotta that smooth shit at my place of work, and try-as-I-might, I find this stuff almost impossible to get to grips w/ - it is SO formulaic, mechanised, substance-free, it just vanishes into the air.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 24 October 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I've owned singles of "Morning Dance" by Spyro Gyra and "Feels So Good" by Chuck Mangione, both of which are quite catchy, but they're a few years too old, and they're not albums.

Does the saxophone on Quarterflash albums count?

chuck, Saturday, 25 October 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, "Street Life" by the Crusaders is GREAT, probably even in its 11-minute album version, but that's 1979, so never mind. (What about George Benson? I've never listened to an album by him, but I think he might've done some nifty stuff in the early '80s.) (And what about that Miles Davis album where he covered "Human Nature" and Cyndi Lauper? Does that not count just because it's Miles? How confusing.)

chuck, Saturday, 25 October 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually said 20 years to make it more difficult -- it seems like Lite Jazz had its heyday in the late 70s/early 80s. I was trying to avoid the easy mid-70s picks like George Benson and Quincy Jones.

Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 25 October 2003 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Right, because if you go back much further than that, you end up with actually good albums like this:

http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/W/washington_winef.jpg

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 25 October 2003 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Or this:

Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 25 October 2003 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre400/e437/e437537w6qi.jpg

Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 25 October 2003 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Whenever I think of lite jazz, I always think of this old local commercial when I was a kid for a stereo shop. They were playing Grover Washington Jr and panning slowly across all this slick-ass early-80's gear, all silver dials and backlit meters and paper-coned speakers... man, I love that shit. Not even listening to "real jazz" can make me think ill of all that early 80's R&B-tinted stuff. That shit was Heffner all the way.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 25 October 2003 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

dunno about albums but i really like this song which is i believe called "after hours" and is by ronnie jordan. heck, looking at amg it's even on a comp called "the very best of smooth jazz"

ron (ron), Saturday, 25 October 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/jordan_ronn_badbrothe_101b.jpg

vahid (vahid), Saturday, 25 October 2003 06:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the Crusaders are great, even their new 'reunion' alb (w/out Wayne Henderson, tho') isn't too bad, 'tasty' contrib from Eric Clapton notwithstanding - but, like George Benson, they're much more old-style jazz-funk/r'n'b than smooth jazz, no? (George's 70s CTI albs are just fine, but after that it's pretty much POP all the way)

The Marcus Miller-made Miles albs are like the arse-end of fusion, more than smooth/lite, I'd say - the tone of the trumpet is still a bit too vinegar to be 'mellow' enough for smooth (even on the pop tune covers), the bass is too upfront, and some of the supporting musicians - Kenny Garrett, Bob Berg, Al Foster, John Scofield, even M. Miller - are still playing mainstream-straightahead jazz licks.

This thread gives me the impression that not too many ILMers have been exposed to the full horrors of modern smooth jazz mung - yr Brian Culbertsons and Acoustic Alchemys and Kirk Whalums and Dave Kozs and Jeff Lorber and Chuck Loeb and on and on. There's a REAL gap in the rockwrite market on this type of stuff - no kind of crit guide, no canon, not in print anyway

Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 25 October 2003 07:47 (twenty-two years ago)

jazzanova - in between

gaz (gaz), Saturday, 25 October 2003 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

So hey, what about David Sanborn (whoever he is)?? Did he ever make a good album? Somehow I doubt it, but I did really like the version of "Bang Bang" by Joe Cuba he had a small hit with a few years back.

chuck, Monday, 27 October 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Grover Washington is good. And I once heard Bill Withers on the smooth jazz radio station.

Chick Corea's Elektrik Band has the smooth jazz sound while still playing some crazy shit. I still hate it.

I still don't have any of Miles' 80s studio albums, but I absolutely love Live Around the World. It has the raw edges and interplay that is lacking in what I've heard of the studio stuff (what is that record where he's got a machine gun on the cover? god that one's aweful).

David Sanborn...I don't have any of his own records, but I gotta give the guy some respect. I just heard some story about him playing with some avant garde guys that you never would have expected, and it seems that most jazz musicians speak pretty highly of him. He plays on this great Larry Goldings record along with Joshua Redman and Maceo and totally holds his own, and he did play with James Brown and John McLaughlin.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 October 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, you prob. own at least some recs w/ David Sanborn on - he often played alto to Michael Brecker's tenor on lots and lots of jazz/funk/pop studio sessions in the seventies. One of Sanborn's solo albs (produced by Marcus Miller again) has a great funk version of 'Ramblin'' by Ornette Coleman on it. And didn't he have a brief music show on TV that was 'music supervised' (or whatever) by Hal Willner? Christian Marclay once appeared on it, I think.

Yeah, the kind of prog-fusion-lite jazz churned by tedious chopmeisters like Corea, Allan Holdsworth, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colliauta and assorted Zappolytes is prob. even more intolerable than the smoothest smoothy shit. I blame Jaco!

Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 27 October 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, apparently all kinds of jazz musicians appeared on that show (Night Music?) who never would have been on tv otherwise.

Fuck a Weckl.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 October 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm holding in my hand, right now, the very best (rinse, repeat) the very best lite jazz album of... well, 2003: The Yellowjackets' Time Squared (Heads Up). When you forgive the group's farty bass lines, soupy textures, warmed-over drums, bored solos, aimless melodies, canned/aloof/wimpy harmonies, flippant introductions, and velvety vocals that MAKE it lite jazz, the disc actually has snappy moments that can melt my knees. Track 4 is a hum-along that's orgasmic when the keyboard player squirts chops onto the band's slicked-over palattes, patiently building some satisfying narratives. Sax guy Bob Mintzer IS Bob Berg (check out Berg's solos on the JazzTimes Superband album from a few years back). Plus, the YJackets are a 20-years-strong boy band (albeit lite jazz), so I'm inclined to promote 'em.

George Benson's stuff *is* heavyweight lite-jazz. He does Beaeatles songs (yeah, straight through the 90s) that work wonders on the whooping cough, so I'm inclined to promote him too. He comes up with some startling arpeggio-blurs that seem more beboppy in their attack than lite-jazzy, but I'm willing to slap the lite label on him.

Saxophonist Bobby Watson is NOT lite jazz as a soloist (he's the meaty volcano that erupts viciously on most Jazz Messengers albums in the early-mid 80s), but his actual COMPOSITIONS (on Love Remains and Appointment in Milano, at least) are balmy, muted, and plastic. That said, he's my hero.

--dk

Daniel King (djking), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

that's not my email address. old account. not that anyone *disagrees* about bobby Watson and the yellowjackets and wants to issue a personal dissent, i'm guessin'.

Daniel King (djking), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Night Music was a *fantastic* show. First place I ever saw Sonic Youth live on television - it was right after Daydream Nation, they did "Silver Rocket", "Teenage Riot". Tom Waits was also on. And Lou Reed and John Cale did a "Songs for Drella" set. Great stuff. Never see anything like that on network television again.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 28 October 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow. *That* is the sort of thing they should be putting out dvd boxsets of (and never will).

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Night Music was a really random show, and it was on at some godforsaken hour, like 2 a.m on Saturday nights. At the time I had no idea who David Sanborn was (for a long time I confused him with John Zorn - yikes). I don't think it was on for more than a couple years. Why anyone gave him the show in the first place I can't even begin to fathom.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 28 October 2003 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd200/d239/d239589t470.jpg

JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't think much of that Yellowjackets alb, but I wldn't esp. 'classify' it as lite/smooth jazz, either - just slick modern mainstream jazz. Comparing Mintzer to Berg is v. flattering to Mintzer, I think - there's none of Berg's cranky fire on that Yellowjackets rec (Daniel, have you heard the rec that Berg made w/ Joe Locke, just before he died, '4 Walls of Freedom' - now that's a CLASSY mainstream jazz alb, w/ a bit more bite and some of Berg's best playing)

Nobody has mentioned Kenny G!

Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

uh, because the question asks for the Greatest Lite Jazz Album

JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't know it until I looked him up, but this guy died in 1998. I had this record when I was a kid. I was a regular smoothie.

http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/images/covers/170/060/67041.jpg

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 05:31 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd800/d894/d89470x7ey6.jpg

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Blech.

The Nat King Cole tribute album of hers is really great, though.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 05:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the next time anyone is in a record store that stocks this stuff, i want you to pick up a new copy of the latest brian culbertson cd and look at the promotional sticker on it. it is the worst, most amusing blurb on a record i have ever seen.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, just tell us what it says.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah but it's not 'light' enough. Besides, the inside cover art is better. It almost makes her look hot!

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i cant remember! and if i misquote it it will not be as funny as the truth. i will be working at the record shop monday, and so i will grab the cd out of the stacks and post it if i can remember to.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard of a single one of these albums.

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre600/e673/e673339jtm0.jpg

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 30 October 2003 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001EYA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

mohammed abba (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 30 October 2003 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha, dude, if you're gonna go that route, you best get the right album:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre300/e348/e348514rhvi.jpg

JasonD (JasonD), Thursday, 30 October 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

you just made me cry. i must put on "mind games" to ease my pain.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Thursday, 30 October 2003 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Poking my head in just to say:

Carla Bley, Night-Glo.

Phil (phil), Thursday, 30 October 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sticker for "come on up" by brian culbertson:
"BRIAN CULBERTSON TAKES THE FUNKALICIOUS SOUNDS YOU LOVE AND KICKS THIS PARTY INTO HIGH GEAR... C'MON UP TO THESE 12 NEW FRESH AND GROOVIN' TUNES..."

i guess it may have been more amusing in context when i saw it while spot-checking.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

How about Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays' As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls? That thing's so mellow it's dead.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

'lite' and 'just plain shitty' should be kept separate and distinct.

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Night Music, saw this random swipe on another board:

"Hello,

I had the great pleasure of meeting David Sanborn
yesterday, and I asked him about the possibilty of his
Night Music TV programs being released on DVD.

He said that the ownership of the episodes belongs
jointly to himself, Lorne Michaels and a third party.
Sanborn loved Night Music, would love to see it issued
on DVD, and has approached Lorne Michaels with the
idea. Apparently Lorne feels that he never really
re-couped his investment in the series and, in
essence, is still owed money, and this has been a
major roadblock in getting Night Music re-released.
David said that he doubts that Lorne could have lost
much on the venture, and that it's unfortunate that
this is what's preventing a lot of great music from
being heard and seen.

Regards,

Paul"

And whoever posted the cover on TNT: OTM.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Er ... wait, if Michael hasn't recouped his investment, then wouldn't releasing the thing on DVD be a major step towards doing just that?!

What am I missing?

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Michaels, obv

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

That was my first thought, WTF.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...
It's a beautiful spring day, the birds are chirping, flowers are in bloom. All day I've been thinking about sax.

Mark (MarkR), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
Any of Candy Dulfer's cds are great, Sax-A-Go-Go is brilliant, as is saxuality. Also Dulfer, Dulfer is good too. Thats Candy with her dad Hans Dulfer.

Cate, Saturday, 7 August 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

kenny g's debut obv, g-force,
fools.

duke force, Saturday, 7 August 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Claude Bolling "lite"? If he is, I nominate him.

o. nate (onate), Saturday, 7 August 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete Belasco, Get It Together, mmmmmmmm

Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Saturday, 7 August 2004 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
the only jazz i want hear is candy dulfer in prince" partyman"
i like a girl who can blow ( and play alto sax too )

sax symbol,sag god,
will we see john tesh putting a raincoat over a sax and calling it "SAFE SAX" ?

Kees Flodder, Saturday, 20 November 2004 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

You guyFor reasons of attempted girlfriend, I know more about this neighborhood than I'd rather say (although some of it comes from woking in CD stores, too). She really likes pianist Bob James, although not, particularly, his "supergroup," Fourplay (that should have told me something). Funny, I kept hearing some pretty piquant-for-that-sort-of-thing tracks (yeah, it's also her fault I use words like "piquant"). Kept turning out to be from their album ELIXIR (don't remember if this was with Lee Rittenour or Larry Carlton's axe, but check it out sometime). The best BJ was GRAND PIANO CANYON (not at all grandiose, just, like, spacious pad music). The best she got me into was Stan Getz. His bossa nova recs from early 60s were aand are the prime smoove makeout music (even if Airto Moreita claimed that he and his fellow Brazilians liked them as comedy records). Later albums mostly very mellow also, though not nec. lite (we likes the final decade, with keys of Mr. Kenny Barron in attensance). Crusaders' keybist, Joe Sample, made perhaps only one album of standards, played on non-electric keys, with strings. It is INVITATION, and one of her all-time faves, along with Earl Klugh's LATE NIGHT GUITAR and Gary Burton's COOL NIGHTS. Miles' LOVE SONGS (hey even Chistgau likes that one!). and the ones he did with Gil, even, I'd say *their* bossa nova album, QUIET NIGHTS, although I read that ended the partnership there,so disgusted by Gil's tardiness (getting it finished past the point of cashing in on the bossa trend--but not nec. disgusted by actual music). Davis Sanborn did some nice sparky (but hardly out-there) bits with Paul Butterfield in the 60s, like "Born Under A Bad Sign" and "I Pity The Fool"(no, Paul didn't sound like Mr. T., or any other black man, unusually enough for a white blues or rock singer in the 60s!). Night Music was AKA "Michelob Night Music," so maybe they'r e the third partner, unnamed by David (he did a really good 80s or early 90s-downtown NYC avantish jazz album,ANOTHER HAND, produced by Willner

don, Saturday, 20 November 2004 06:54 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, it's something like "Beneath the Missouri Sky" by Haden and Metheny. it's lite and it's listenable, will offend no one.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 21 November 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...
So, on the recommendation of Tom Hull (who didn't come close to voting for it on his ballot, but who in his long Pazz and Jop poll comment footnotes, nonetheless called it the crossover jazz album of the year and compared it to Bohannon), I just this morning bought a copy of saxist Andre Ward's *Steppin Up* (on which he covers songs by R Kelly, Simply Red, and Chicago.) It is...um, very very smooth. I definitely enjoy it, though comparing it to Bohannon might be stretching things. I'm going to have Tom write a crossover jazz roundup for the Voice regardless. I'm really curious about this stuff. Anyway, does anybody out there have any opinions about this Andre Ward fellow? (He sure dresses quite snazzy, if nothing else.)

chuck, Friday, 21 January 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...
tom hull does a roundup:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0515,hull,62886,22.html

xhuxk, Monday, 11 April 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

Candy Dulfer's "Saxuality," which I have never heard, because of it's hilarious title.

Roland Kirk should have released an album called "Bisaxuality"

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)


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