They started out trying to be trashy and disreputable, and ended up trying to be classy and artistic... how do you reconcile the two?

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This was Sean's question from another thread. However, it was also Japan's and Roxy's Music's dilemma. It's an interesting question isn't it? What is your take on the matter, you sexy people?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:19 (twenty-three years ago)

strokes to thread

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

i wonder if the age of the artists in question was a factor

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

and advancement thereof

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

this is pretty much the story of both the beatles and the stones too, innit?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Age seems pretty close. I always think of Talk Talk -- in particular, how they were really just kids who wanted to be famous at first and maybe learned a thing or two about artistic integrity along the way...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:41 (twenty-three years ago)

anyone think of examples of bands that went the other way around?

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:42 (twenty-three years ago)

ministry?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:43 (twenty-three years ago)

The Dismemberment Plan?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 27 October 2003 05:03 (twenty-three years ago)

GG Allin!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 27 October 2003 05:21 (twenty-three years ago)

was he ever classy? i can't picture it somehow

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2003 05:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I think something thats very common in my musical collection are bands that began thinking "screw all this art mess" (politely phrased) and just made what they felt and ended up being regarded as art. Think of the number of punk bands that went through this, especially in New York (or maybe thats my slant).

Also I guess more pertinant to the original proposition, maybe some of it has to do with the fact that making something sleezy is easy, and you can never really be proud of something that came easy to you. I think people (I at least know I) don't feel good unless I'm at least somewhat proud of what I'm doing.

Sorry for wanting to discuss and not just cite, it's my nature.

― Mike Salmo (salmo), Monday, 27 October 2003 06:18 (twenty-three years ago)

was he ever classy? i can't picture it somehow

well, "classy" is relative wr2 mr. allin, considering the well-known depths to which he later sank. but his first album -- always was, is, and always shall be -- was pretty much standard late 70s/early 80s hardcore and (again, in comparison to the rest of his, um, oeuvre) wasn't as deranged as he eventually became.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 27 October 2003 06:26 (twenty-three years ago)

and no mention of Prince here (afa starting out trashy, ending up arty). wtf is up with that?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 27 October 2003 06:27 (twenty-three years ago)

also the manic street preachers

― robin (robin), Monday, 27 October 2003 08:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Sonic Youth own this thread.. Although they had an artsy edge from the start, it's been a long way from the low-fi Stooges covers to the coffee-table appeal of the (grogeous) 'Murray Street'..

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Monday, 27 October 2003 08:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Forcefield started out trying to be trashy and disreputable, and then some art fucks started to think they were classy and arty == the demise of one of the few good, trashy dance/noise/industrial/sludge bands.

Who can pick up from where they left off? Mammal? Hair Police? Wolf Eyes? ;; I dunno. Forcefield just had the booty shaking down to a science. Throbbing and massive. And someone decided that it was art because they dressed up silly and made giant monsters.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Monday, 27 October 2003 08:26 (twenty-three years ago)

oh and how could I forget Belinda Carlisle (although I'm not sure about the art part)

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Monday, 27 October 2003 08:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Ween are the owners of this phenomenon.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 October 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Except that they manage to be classy and artistic AND trashy and disreputable all at once.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 October 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Elvis Presley = disreputable/artistic >>> classy/trashy?

― dave q, Monday, 27 October 2003 13:48 (twenty-three years ago)

What about FUGAZI?

― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Monday, 27 October 2003 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

here's an early photo of GG. YOU BE THE JUDGE!

http://www.mctrachiotomy.com/GG.jpg

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 27 October 2003 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

In response to thread title:

http://www.click2music.com.au/cache/21165/x180.jpg

― dleone (dleone), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:15 (twenty-three years ago)

WB Yeats

― Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 01:01 (twenty-three years ago)

The Divine Comedy, though the trash aspect had a bit of gloss and mod suits

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 01:50 (twenty-three years ago)

am i missing something or has the name madonna not been mentioned?

as for how to reconcile the two, in her case you don't. you keep the early records, you discard the later ones, and you move on to another trashy and disreputable artist.

disagree about sonic youth - i don't think they've really changed that much. it's the world around them that's changed, so that what once seemed abrasive and weird now has a weird kind of upper-crust appeal. but they're not a whole lot less discordant and jammy than they used to be.

and i'd nominate u2 as a band that went the reverse way, or at least *tried* to go the reverse way.

― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 28 October 2003 01:53 (twenty-three years ago)

you know, that picture of a young GG Allin makes me think -- that had things been a little different, he coulda turned into an american Ian Curtis instead of ... well, what he became.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 02:15 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree but then he probably never would have written "I Kill Everything I Fuck" which would be a tragedy.

― sucka (sucka), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 04:54 (twenty-three years ago)

o to imagine a world without "suck my ass it smells"!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:38 (twenty-three years ago)

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