T/S: the First Six Black Sabbath Albums vs. the First Six Van Halen Albums

Sabbath are the instinctive choice, but I've been listening to Van Halen for about a week now, and I think they're a lot stronger than people remember them being. They were a singles band, I think (too young to actually remember their initial emergence), whereas Sabbath have always been an album band, therefore Sabbath are seen as more "important." Despite the fact that Roth upended the whole rock-frontman thing by turning it into a vehicle for weird Al Jolsonisms and a wink so constant it became a tic.

#12: 1984
#20: Sabotage (which most people underrate, still, I bet)
#27: Paranoid (should MAYBE be higher than the two above)
#90: Van Halen
#102: Fair Warning
#120: Master of Reality (should maybe be higher than Fair Warning)
#123: Women and Children First
#125: Van Halen II
#139: Sabbath Vol. 4 (which should maybe be LOWER; I mean, beyond
"Supernaut," does anybody really give a shit about this thing?)
#419: Black Sabbath (which should be a lot higher, probably)
#488: Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (which still pretty much sucks ass --
in fact, given the choice, I'd probably take Diver Down now.)

Where that leaves us, I still have no idea.

Best song on any of the above, though: "Paranoid," easy.

This is actually the one I listen to the most. I never had listened to much Sabbath outside of a couple of songs before I first read Stairway to Hell, and so when I finally got it (after getting most of the others), I wanted to get as good a sense of it as I could. And I seem to have done! "Symptom of the Universe" is just ridiculously good.

This thread has made me really want some of those old Sabbath albums that I don't actually own, so it is a good thing.

Weren't Bulletboys about the only ones? And then not even then?

Roth's solo career > Ozzy's solo career, no contest.

Ozzy's TV show > Roth's TV show (which may have never even aired, but his people sent me a videotape of it a couple years ago. Yuck.)

but, no, it never aired. it was just a video that got sent to a million or so critics with no explanation (as if there could have been one) and for no apparent reason.

But Sabbath is Sabbath. And that is practically unfuckwithable.

Analogy: Sabbath:Bruce Lee::VH:Jackie Chan.

Though I totally disagree re: solo careers. "Crazy Train" tops any of Roth's solo shit.

YES!!!!

And that one was quite good while Black Sabbath were struggling musically by then.

Hard to pick anyway, considering they are two of my favourite metal acts. Both had a way with being highly melodic that most metal bands don't

i think i just meant the post-eddie guitar wank without the wink and the peroxide jobs without the songs. purty much EVERY hard rock band from the states after VH's debut were coloured, shaped, or awed into some state of suspended adolescence/animation by it. from Slayer on down.so, in a sense, i listen to tons of people who were influenced in some way by van halen. heavy metal guitar would not be the same without them. i guess i just meant in an obvious sense. in the way that Sabbath imitators are easy to peg on first listen.

Oh, there are plenty of Bulletboys songs which sound like Van Halen, but that's not one of 'em.

Anyway, for me it's Sabbath all the way.

Why is the Ozzy period so consistently seen as being only the first six albums, by the way? (NB: this rule extends as far as my record collection, so I can't comment on the merits or otherwise of Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die, though I do recall Live At Last not being so hot).

The song sung by Bill Ward on the Sabbath Story Volume One comes from one of those two albums though, doesn't it? If that's in any way indicative, then all becomes clear!

How can you hate on the cover art of the first Black Sabbath album, by the way (if only by omission)?

i don't just make this shit up! well, some times i do.

Yeah, Randy Rhoads sure went downhill after he, um, right nevermind.

(god I have to get some more Sabbath albums)

* having listened to all these albums far less (1984 was the only one I had while growing up), a lot of their stuff is a lot more weirdly unexpected to my mind these days -- am listening to Diver Down today and was thoroughly and pleasantly surprised by "Secrets," which is almost a Hall and Oates parallel world hit (from the exact same time frame) in ways. "Little Guitars" has something about it that reminds me of Telekon-era Gary Numan! And there's something on Fair Warning that's sorta reggae, yes? Sabbath were all over the place too, mind you, to their credit. Maybe the triangulation point is Queen or something.

* more bands should be more relaxed and open about doing covers of all sorts on their albums rather than having to worry about being 'original' the whole damn time -- only a couple of total hypergenrefucks perhaps ("Happy Trails" f'r instance, but imagine if they actually had Beach Boys-style harmonies), they were mostly dedicated to a very Sixties post-British Invasion style of covers and revamps (some Motown, some blues, some oldies) suited for a garage band circa 1966, but generally speaking were able to translate into a cusp-of-eighties glossworld.

* the albums are all blessedly short! For all that EVH is seen/criticized in corners as being an excuse for guitarwankaroo nearly everyone of these albums barely crests the thirty-minute mark.

* David Lee Roth, whattaguy. He sounds like he's out to have a enjoyably ridiculous time whenever he opens his mouth, and he delivers!

Still, George Smith was right elsewhere recently, the rhythm section really isn't all that -- and compared to Butler and Ward? GIDOUDDAHERE.

There's no pocket that the bassist and drummer reside together in with van Halen. The band still manages to groove -- but not in a trad way -- because Eddie can groove rhythmically.

Hang 'Em High
Unchained
Atomic Punk
Drop Dead Legs
So This Is Love
Beautiful Girls
You're No Good

And the hate for Diver Down has always made me sad.

Anyone else remember Roxy Blue "Rob the Cradle"? It was a total "Hot For Teacher" rip-off iirc. Played on Headbanger's Ball in 1992.
"Rob the craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaduhle! Awll night lawng!"
Heh.

For a second I thought that said "Me'Shell NdegéOcello"