If Neil Young Is "The Godfather Of Grunge," then who is the "Godfather Of Emo"?

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Someone asked me this rhetorical question today and I was at a loss. Anyone have a clever answer?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

james taylor.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

or rush.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"your mom"

(that's my stock clever answer)

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh wait. It's Bob Mould, isn't it?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonathan Richman?

― dave q, Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

KURT, MAN!!
http://www.nirvanaclub.net/gallery/cobain/gullick6.jpg

― Prude (Prude), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Lou Barlow?

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Lou Barlow!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it might be neil young again.nobody did cracked and quavering like neil.or brian wilson. take your pick.

― scott seward, Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:49 (twenty-one years ago)

These guys:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6067/archies.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Or maybe Morrissey.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Diamanda Galas?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

can't Neil Young be responsible for emo too? he was always a bit of a whiner

(major xp)

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Very good point.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 6 November 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Kurt's K Records tat.

And the answer is Westerberg...

― ModJ (ModJ), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Trans can make Neil the godfather of electroclash too.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Brian Wilson

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I fear that the answer may be Billy Corgan.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Bruno Tattaglia

― Vito Corleone (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

lou barlow.

― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always assumed it was Simon and Garfunkel.

― chuck, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It can't be Billy Corgan! Grunge was well underway when Smashing Pumpkins hit; in fact, they were among the first wave.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

dude from Weezer, natch.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Colin Meeder

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Huh, did emo come before grunge? I don't know, sorry.

(The only reason I said Corgan was b/c he's been mentioned as an influence for so many "emo" bands. But then again I know nothing about emo.)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't you think that Corgan, Cuomo, and Cobain are too recent? Because if we're going for a direct analogy, there needs to be the elder statesman thing and the generation gap. I keep trying to come up with something analogous to the Pearl Jam/Neil Young relationship...

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Dez Cadena or Keith Morris (and yes I win this thread Moderators please lock immediately kthxbye).

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought emo was a v. recent development.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry plz kill me for my posts on this thread.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Ozzy osbourne?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

emo kids don't give a fuck about anything pre like 92 at the very very very earliest - & why should they was a long time ago... kurt and the first weezer record and the pumpkins and fugazi are as distant as n. young was to grunge

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

also: i don't buy "neil young = godfather of grunge"

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(Is this the point of the thread where I sheepishly admit that I accidentally switched "emo" and "grunge"?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

what is emo anyway?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

what is grunge anyway?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

God, please, no one try to answer those last two questions.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

what is a troll?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

who and where is JONATHAN WILLIAMS?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Emo makes me cry. Grunge makes me feel dirty.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You are a fucking asshole.

― skuirlpolice, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

wha? Little joke there son. To be honest I don't really care for either genre, though I guess there's some "grunge" stuff from my youth I still have a fondness for (first Mudhoney album, a fair chunk of Nirvana's output - that's about it tho).

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

was seven seconds the first hardcore band to go emo? although, they didn't call it that then, did they? i remember getting new wind after it came out and going, "eeeewwwwwww". or something like that. when did the embrace album come out? yeah, husker du, too. do emo bands love zen arcade? (or dream of electric sheep wearing cardigans?)

― scott seward, Thursday, 6 November 2003 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been hearing "emo" since about '88, it always meant hardcore bands that sang about feelings instead of politics until the recent wave of screamy post-Superchunk stuff. so who knows? I'll say Jonathan Richman since he founded punk anyway, he might as well have title to its offspring too.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

There's got to be a way to blame emo on The Velvet Underground/Lou Reed. Maybe "Jesus" is the first emo song.

― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Daniel Johnston

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 7 November 2003 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i blame roy orbison

― Annouschka (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.gocontinental.com/photos/orbison_2a.jpg

― Annouschka (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Madness

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Guy Picciotio is clearly the godfather of EMO.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Or possibly the father.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

and yet labelmates dag nasty were doing it first (not to mention much better).

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

first = earlier

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Am I the only one that thought that pic of Kurt was Mike Mills?

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 7 November 2003 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn, you're right. It's spooky. I saw them on Charlie Rose the other night, and Mike Mills still looks almost exactly like that. Now if we had a picture of Kurt with no hair and neon blue eyeliner he might resemble Michael Stipe.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 7 November 2003 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Johnny Ray. Used to cry onstage in the pre-rock era.

― mike a (mike a), Friday, 7 November 2003 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Marlon Brando.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 7 November 2003 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrico Caruso.
http://image.allmusic.com/00/acg/pic200/drz000/z001/z00198shy6g.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 7 November 2003 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Ari Katz of Lifetime. TRUST ME. 'BOUT DIS.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it's Bruce Springsteen.

― tod (tod), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

westerberg? what the....?

that's just wrong.

― TK, Friday, 7 November 2003 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

How bout Mark Eitzel? He ia about as emo as anyone can get.

― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Friday, 7 November 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Good call on Caruso, Kenan. But more recent candidates would have to include Elvis, Bono, and Steve Perry.

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 7 November 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, here you go:

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGPORTRAITS/music/portrait200/drp000/p052/p05238cj08v.jpg

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 7 November 2003 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

And even a year or two earlier:

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGPORTRAITS/music/portrait200/drp000/p058/p05897e0m59.jpg

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 7 November 2003 07:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think one of the biggest problems I have here is relating "grunge" to "emo". I mean emo is a stylistic genre. It got labeled before it got going (did it really get going?). "Grunge" was something that the press labeled any early 90's Seatle band or anybody that sounded like one of the early 90's Seatle bands. I mean really. Look at the typically labeled "grunge" acts: Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Tad, etc. You could maybe relate one to another but as a group they have little to nothing in common other than location. It's like when people look at Television and the Ramones as being "punk". It's more of a time and place than a sound.

Emo on the other hand is skinny white guys crying on stage (or on shiny plastic). I guess I'm also getting old enough to say "it all sounds the same to me" (which is sad).

Neil Young was an idol to Pearl Jam. You might be able to construe an influence on some other "grunge" bands. But keep in mind we're talking in Rolling Stone terms here. Even punk had more of a legitimate claim to "godfathers" than grunge: the Stooges+MC5, the Velvets, even maybe Neil (and then later various things from Krautrock to Led Zepplin---ugh).

"Grunge" (I don't mean to seem elitist putting grunge in quotes, I just think its more of a saying than anything) was more of something that hadn't stopped since "punk died" and was brought back to the forefront. I mean jeeze you could probably argue the same sort of thing from early garage rock to punk. It just occasionally comes back into the foreground and scares the crap out of the media since they don't control it. They throw a name on it, call it a phenomenon and try to market the hell out of it to reign it back in. I hope to jeebus it happens again soon, real soon. We need it to remind people that the dollar sign isn't the most important thing in music, and that taste cannot be bought. The again, for the majority, maybe it can be.

Jeeze it's late and I'm rambling/ranting. Sorry.

― Mike Salmo (salmo), Friday, 7 November 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

What is "emo"?

― Jonathan Z., Friday, 7 November 2003 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"grunge" is a term that's been around for decades before Nirvana or whoever came along, though, not unlike "emo." I remember seeing something written by Dave Marsh in the early '80s about AC/DC's Jailbreak '74 calling it "grunge," so clearly it's not anymore just Sub Pop-derived music than "emo" is just Dashboard Confessional.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 7 November 2003 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

ESOJ and Chuck Eddy are absolutely OTM.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i read the thread title as "godfather of eno"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

eno is the godfather of emo obv

― geeta (geeta), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i think mould is correct

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Costello and Mould are more like uncles

― tod (tod), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

''whatever'' by husker du (a great song) is pretty much where the nonsense started.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, it's Bob Mould, he has an inside running

― mentalist (mentalist), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Tsk, any fool kno that Bob Mould is the Godfather of grunge *and* emo. And Neil Young too, most likely.

― Mog, Friday, 7 November 2003 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bob Mould is the godfather of emo than I guess Pete Shelley is the grandgodfather of emo? or Goduncle, if we count Mac McCaughan as a parent? Yeesh, this is getting all incestuous.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

pete shelley is useless

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

as opposed to emo? wtf?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

no it just came out

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The Northen Pikes, esp. "teenland"

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeremy Enigk?

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 7 November 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"I called you up to see if maybe we could hang out
and I told you I was nervous and feeling lonely
but I bit my lip and you said yes
and I thought of how beautiful the night would be
and I thought maybe we could drive around talking about your town
or we could just stay at home and I could win over acting cool
just like real romance" which is from some shit Saves the day song is only a pose away from...
"I called this number three times already today But I, I got scared, I put it back in place, I put my phone back in place. I still don't know if I should have called up. Look, just tell me why don't ya if I'm out of place. Cause here's your chance to make me feel awkward And wish that I had never even called up this place.
I saw you though today walk by with hippie Johnny. i had to call up and say how I want to take his place."

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 7 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

even better:

I need a walk by the flowers
Let some of it shimmer off ...
Looks like nobody could take your place
And I could bleed in sympathy with you
On those days
And I could drink up everything you have
Don't let it go to waste

― scott seward, Friday, 7 November 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

another vote for Jonathan Richman

― Mister Snrub (MisterSnrub), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Pete Townshend

― Mister Snrub (MisterSnrub), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

brian emo

― minna (minna), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry :D

― minna (minna), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I just think you can't talk about emo without looking at Honor Role and Squirrel Bait every few screen-scrolls, so here:

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGPORTRAITS/music/portrait200/drp000/p052/p05238cj08v.jpg http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGPORTRAITS/music/portrait200/drp000/p058/p05897e0m59.jpg

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Bette Midler

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 8 November 2003 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

social distortion
or
birthday party

― kafs, Saturday, 8 November 2003 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

no fooling, i was at someone's house way back when and they put on the then new Nevermind and for a brief moment i got excited that squirrel bait had gotten back together. Hah! i was kinda disapointed when i heard that it was nirvana.

― scott seward, Saturday, 8 November 2003 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Lou Barlow, definitely.

And somewhere tonight, the former members of Buffalo Tom are watching that Ataris video and just kicking themselves.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 8 November 2003 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

if we count Mac McCaughan as a parent? -- Anthony Miccio (anthonymicci...), November 7th, 2003.

YESSSSSSSSS!!!! SOOOO OTM!!!

Although, I would have also picked Bob Mould as a first choice just to be polite, but he doesn't deserve that at all.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Saturday, 8 November 2003 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)

pete shelley is useless

As what exactly did you have in mind? A drinks coaster? A photocopier? A five bar gate?

Oh, wait a minute, I see what you're getting at. No, no, no.

*shakes head in sorrow*

― Ben Dot (1977), Saturday, 8 November 2003 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

smokey robinson. every emo song is a hopeless "Oh we can do angsty sounding chords on our guitar, arent we grebt! and maybe it'll be an acoustic guitar if we want to get laid tonight with loeb glasses emo chicks" attempt to rip off "tracks of my tears" except whereas "tracks of my tears" is genius, dashboard confessional is complete monkey wank

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Saturday, 8 November 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"My smile is my make up I wear since my break up with you" - always loved that lyric.

― mentalist (mentalist), Sunday, 9 November 2003 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely Ian Mackaye of Minor Threat? They were doing emo in 81.

Evidence:

Maybe it was no one's fault. I know it wasn't mine. But now that you've
moved along. I guess I'm next in line. I thought we had the same ideas. But
you, you proved me wrong. I've been played the fool before. But never for
quite so long.
(Chorus)
Betray.
So what now? Do we shake hands, and go on our separate ways? Or do I open my
mind, and follow you into the haze? No, I'll see you tomrrow. Same channel,
same time, same place. I'm not going anywhere. 'Cause I quit your fucking
race.
(Chorus)
Goddamit, we were supposed to stay young. And now it's over, it's finished,
it's done. Normal expectations, they were on the run. But now it's over,
it's finished, it's done.

― MB, Sunday, 9 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Leonard Cohen

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Sunday, 9 November 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

GOD, but thats my answer on everything so......................................................................................................................................................................................huh what did I just say....whatever

― asdfasdfasdfasdf, Wednesday, 19 April 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

Al Jolson

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:13 (nineteen years ago)

Dustin Hoffman

― Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:30 (nineteen years ago)

Come on, people...Diplo!

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Thursday, 20 April 2006 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

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