Received Wisdom: Albums generally regarded as rubbish that you found to be actually not bad to pretty fine stuff...

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e.g.

De La Soul is dead
Self Portrait
Yes Please
Psycho's Path
Cut the Crap

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Their Satanic Majesties Request
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm being deadly serious about this one...

http://yesworld.com/gallery/images/albums/Tales_s.jpg

― Damian (Damian), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah self portrait (i rather like some of it)
neil young's - trans (not bad at all really, in fact its very decent)
fleetwood mac - tuck (well actually critical opinion seems to have swung on this one recently, everyone seems to love it now.)

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Tusk is godhead

― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Gracelands by Paul Simon. Thought it was shit for about 15 odd years. Heard it again the other week. Genius.

― neil, Friday, 7 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

mentioning 'De La Soul Is Dead' is cheating, pure and simple, 'cause it is generally regarded as a very good record :-)

Puff Daddy: Forever

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Oasis - Be Here Now.

― Miggie (Miggie), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Roxy Music's 'Flesh and Blood'. Avalon gets all the attention, but this is the one folks - icy modernism meets retro-romance in an empty ballroom.
Also 'Manifesto'- their *new wave* album. All over the place, but classic.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

interesting thread... but surely everyone knows Tusk and Trans are good albums, while any of the others that I have heard (not that many) are actually rubbish.

many people disrespect Ride's "Carnival Of Light", but I have a fondness for it.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not sure de la sou is dead IS considered good by most - certainly on it's release it was a critical and commercial failure. It is wonderful though.

also The Sugarcubes - here today, tomorrow, next week!

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

'Parklife'

― dave q, Friday, 7 November 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

The Sugarcubes - here today, tomorrow, next week!

that is surprisingly enjoyable for a supposedly total Rub album.

do people not like "Parklife" anymore? oooh.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought parklife was supposed to be their best apart from MLIR? it's certainly my favourite.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not sure de la sou is dead IS considered good by most - certainly on it's release it was a critical and commercial failure. It is wonderful though.

at the time yes, but the album's rep is sky high nowadays. check any AMG or whatever sum-up of their career - the consensus is that is a great record, playful and clever with de las whole hippie hop image thing that was held against them at the time.

and that is not only the paradigm, it is also the truth. so there.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree 100% with the two Roxy Music albums.

Gary Numan's 'I, Assassin' and 'Warriors' (especially) are generally regarded as rubbish to non-Numanoids.

Curtis Mayfield's three or four post-'Superfly' albums.

Devo - 'Oh No! It's Devo'

Peter Murphy solo.

― Patrick South (Patrick South), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

icy modernism meets retro-romance in an empty ballroom

great description. really.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought "Tusk" had been rehabilitated ages ago. "Tales from Topographic Oceans" I like a lot.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I've said it on ILE and I'll say it again here.

KULA SHAKER - K

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

urgh

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Hataz.

― Miggie (Miggie), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Muse Sick N Hour Mess Age
Can-I-Bus
Probably lots of other hip-hop's supposed failures.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Clan of Xymox (excluding their crap EZ-listening dance period as just Xymox.)

― sucka (sucka), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, Live!: one of the finest live albums of all time. No studio sweetening as far as I can tell, passionate delivery as always, crazy tracklisting: "Poinciana"? "Theme from 'The Valley of the Dolls'"? His bigging up of the Beatles before "Yesterday" is wild, man.

Gomez, In Our Gun: great songs done well. That's all we're supposed to want, right? Well, they did that here (no blues jamz, no we're-so-clever silliness), and everyone yawned, or reviewed their idea of Gomez rather than the record, which is fine pop music and you'll all realize that someday.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

KULA SHAKER - K

haha Kate you're fucking mad...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that the one with the radiohead played faster track? shot shot, or summat?

xpost.

Yeah, a friend of mine rated K a lot. Never heared it myself, so I abstain. But yes, that's the point of this thread..

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.fye.com/catalog/images/amg/large/drd700/d775/d775tweccharhope.jpg http://www.fye.com/catalog/images/amg/large/drd700/d775/d775tweccharhope.jpg http://www.fye.com/catalog/images/amg/large/drd700/d775/d775tweccharhope.jpg http://www.fye.com/catalog/images/amg/large/drd700/d775/d775tweccharhope.jpg

YOU ARE ALL WRONG AND I AM ALL RIGHT. THE CHILDREN -- THEY UNDERSTAND.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Any post-1975 Miles Davis album (yes, even Doo-Bop).

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Haikunym OTM 2X.

― M Specktor (M Specktor), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Black and Blue by the Stones gets a bad rap, it seems, but it's a fucking classic in my opinion.

And Wandering Spirit, Jagger's solo effort, is probably THE best album by an aging rocker ever to feature Lenny Kravitz.

― mick hall (mick hall), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

err, Mick yer not meant to take yer wife's surname mate

― Keef (mark grout), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Pixies - Trompe Le Monde
Aphex Twin - druqks

Neither are the fall off in quality that their critics claim them to be.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Souljacker. The fact that Shootenany got better reviews than it is one of modern music criticisms great mystries.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Pixies - Trompe Le Monde

yer man Ewing likes this a lot, and because most ILXORs are sheep they like it too.

It's rubbish.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

In Canada, it turns out they don't like Suzi Quatro, but she rules hard even with a thrift store wax pencil price scribbled over her face.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

THE CHILDREN -- THEY UNDERSTAND.

They'll be wondering 'where are they now?' next year.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

How's Spiritualized's Let It Come Down faring these days? Love it, myself.

― zebedee (zebedee), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll second Trompe Le Monde and Wandering Spirit. And hell, why not Black and Blue, while I'm at it.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

tromple le monde is kack -- boring and listless -- a loaf of bread gone stale. regurgitation redux. then again, that's just me -- i've never understood the adulation the pixies receive.

underrated -- the chills soft bomb -- good songs somewhat buried under lackluster session playing and uninteresting production.

― jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Do people still hate the Jungle Brother's Jbeez Wit Da Remedy or has it taken its Tusk-like rightful place as one of the five greatest hip-hop albums of all time?

Everyone loves Trans these days, btw. But how about Everybody's Rocking? I like that one too. No rescuing Old Ways or Landing on Water, though.

― musicmope (musicmope), Friday, 7 November 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I third(?) Gomez In Our Gun

Also, lots of people on here seem to hate Manitoba Up In Flames but I like it

Also 1969 by Afghan Whigs. I also second Muse-Sick-N-Hour Mess Age

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000OPZ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001FS6.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00001P4OP.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I would've said Blowout Comb before coming to ILM, but it seems to get a lot of love here.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I may be the only Ween fan in existence who likes their newer albums more than their older ones.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

http://64.95.118.51/images/opti/d3/bc/90586-resized200.JPG

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

http://64.95.118.51/images/opti/4c/4b/101862-resized200.jpg

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd400/d495/d49546o4882.jpg

― Annouschka (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

King Crimson's 'Lizard', and even 'Islands' for that matter has its moments.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm-a catch an invariably richly justified load of abuse of this (mostly from the Brit contingent), but I've always kinda liked....

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000008DHD.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

...notably for the singles "Hollow Heart" and "Paradise." Sue me.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Pixies - Trompe Le Monde
yer man Ewing likes this a lot, and because most ILXORs are sheep they like it too.

Call me a sheep, but Trompe Le Monde contains my fave Pixies track ever, that being "Planet of Sound," so you can come sheer me and grill my chops if you like.

Even arguably discerning Stranglers fans lambast this record, but I adore the bizarreness of it....

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005MAGE.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 75 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Speaking of ELP's "Love Beach", half of the album is rubbish, but I do love "Memoirs Of An Officer And a Gentleman" :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone want to try to defend the post-Undercover LPs?

"Steel Wheels" is one of their best post-"Sticky Fingers" albums IMO.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 9 November 2003 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Seconding the Thompson Twins "Quick step". Only one dire track "Detectives".

It was immediately after that, they went dire permamently... Gave away their only post "QS" good song to Debbie Harry, "I want that man", shows how clueless they really were... and ting.

― mark grout (mark grout), Sunday, 9 November 2003 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

st anger
trompe le monde
black and blue

― roger adultery, Monday, 10 November 2003 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Where do people stand on Bossanova?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

from what I've seen Bossanova was hugely praised at the time but has fallen away from the top of most people's lists (that I've seen, again)--either they get Albini-nostalgic over the overrated early stuff or they sheepishly admit they like Trompe Le Monde best, which they should. it's their best album by a mile.

totally w/Keith and Douglas on Slick Rick. Great Adventures has better singles but the other two are better albums, especially The Ruler's Back.

as to the myth that De La Soul Is Dead was a critical failure, it placed 30th in that year's Pazz & Jop. that's a big drop-off from first (which is where 3 Feet High & Rising placed), but it's hardly a "failure," not to mention the fact that it placed above The Low End Theory (32nd), which is generally regarded as Tribe's best album. (what placed above DLSID? oh, you know, such still-considered-classics as Chris Whitley's Living With the Law, Seal--see, critics used to LIKE him--Robbie Robertson's Storyville, and Billy Bragg's Don't Try This at Home. ho-kay.)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

EURGH. Matos's concluding paranthetical comment reminds me about how it's so easy to laugh and so easy to hate.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Republica - Speed Ballads
Garbage - beautifulgarbage
Suede - Head Music
Saint Etienne - Good Humor
Elastica - The Menace

I really like all of these. The first three all win due to mauve- plastic-syntheticisms and clunky trebley supersugary sticky headrush fizz, Good Humor seems to be regarded as the St Et 'dip' but it is wonderful woody pinefresh scandipop, The Menace is all shredded and acid-splashed and flickery and gleamy and wafty and unsettling and great. I particularly love The Menace, in fact (although not as much as the debut clearly)

Is sometimes hard to establish exactly what is considered properproper shite and which records divide opinion pretty evenly. I think I'm in pretty safe territory with the first three here though.

― Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

matos so wrong about the pixies!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

gag

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i love this thread.

blount otm about U2 'pop' over 'all that you cant etc', it's more fun despite the utter daftness of the lyrics. what's that track that starts off "jesus, jesus help me"? cracks me up every time, but still a good song.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

'wake up dead man'!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

No Doubt - Tragic Kingdom, Return of Saturn

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, I forgot critics didn't like No Doubt until Rock Steady

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to say, this is one of the most surprisingly civil ILX threads ever.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

just you wait, young man

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I mean it was civil until you had to go and be so wrong about the Pixies! (I'm a Bossanova man myself. A-LI-SONNNN!)

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I would've gotten away with it too if you and cinniblount hadn't gone and taken issue with it! talk about uncivil! (and wrong--Trompe still trumps)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 November 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Stevie Wonder, Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. This was seriously my favorite album ever for a while when I was a kid. The melodies are absolutely more beautiful than you remember, the songs are weirder and more ambiguous than anyone who wants to admit, and the cover had braille and was scented all weird.

The Boo Radleys, C'mon Kids. This was the intentional end of Britpop, a nihilistic smackdown of los bros. Gallagher (with amazing vocal aping of Liam by Sice), a psychedelic freakout, and also contained some great-ass pop music. You don't want to believe me, but you know I'm right dammit. Accept it before it destroys you.

Pizzicato Five, Happy End of the World. Most critics think it's okay enough. I am convinced it is the best album ever made, at least right now, or until I find my copy of Cinderella's Long Cold Winter.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 10 November 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Trompe Trumps - the hot new game.

(uhh... Haikunym, aren't you forgettting something?)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 10 November 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I second "Secret Life Of Plants". The way I see it, his first serious mis-step wasn't until the mid 80s (and his 80s albums did have their moments too, not to mention the underrated "Conversation Piece")

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 10 November 2003 03:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the replacements - don't tell a soul

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

bossa nova > trompe
any pixies song < "alec eiffel"

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 10 November 2003 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

stereolab - cobra and phases groop, my favorite of theirs

― justin (Justin M), Monday, 10 November 2003 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

St. Et., Sound of Water. Everyone seemed to write them off as descending into the inconsequential when this came out, and when Finisterre was released it was cited as a 'return to form'. wha? SoW is lovely. 'How We Used To Live' is their best epic, and the pairing of 'Don't Back Down' and 'Just a Little Overcome' is perfect.

the Sundays, Static and Silence. This is supposed to be their 'why even bother' album, but it's absolutely gorgeous. search 'She', 'Monochrome', 'Homeward', 'Your Eyes', and 'Leave This City'. the cover is also lovely.

Pale Saints, Slow Buildings. Not as stellar as their earlier two, but worth having.

― derrick (derrick), Monday, 10 November 2003 06:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, "The Menace" - if only they weren't a bunch of navel gazing workshy poshos, it would and should have worked. The band, not the album... it should have been album three of a five album career... and ting

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 10 November 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Reading the Pixies recommentations makes me feel old. It shouldn't even be an issue that Surfer Rosa is tops. It's like all those young'uns deciding that Sergent Pepper sucks. And being right.

But this time the young people are WRONG WRONG WRONG. And about Slick Rick, too. And Don't Tell a Soul? Jesus....

― musicmope (musicmope), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Still searching for someone to back me up on 'Shot' being The Jesus Lizard's best album. Suspect I may have to wait a while longer.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Most Lou Reed albums up to and not including "Mistrial".

Post-Fresh Sly Stone.

Pink Floyd after Syd and up till but not including "Dark Side of the Moon"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

The Doors - Soft Parade

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I love that Ned turned into Morrissey for a second and no one blinked.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Love - Four Sail
Love - Out Here
Love - Real to Reel

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I love that Ned turned into Morrissey for a second and no one blinked.

I suspect it's expected these days.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes I think "New Morning" is my favorite Dylan album.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but that was the 'return to glory' album after Self Portrait, no?

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

True, but I alway though it was regarded as, if not crap, at least a lesser effort. It certainly seems to be the least-cited Dylan album. Self Portrait, everbody knows about, because it's the famously crap one.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

ZZ Top-Tejas (I'm basing this off of the AMG review. Stephen Thomas Erlewine sux. The album is brilliant)

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only once seen a Buckethead album get a decent review (that was Praxis Transmutation), and I could rattle off more than a dozen other albums* of his/projects-he's-been-involved-in that are phenomenal. In fact, I think that Praxis review was the only one I've seen that A) didn't go all "oh my god a bucket on his head hur hur", B) didn't mention that he's not Slash", and C) actually mentioned THE MUSIC.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

ATTACK OF THE ROGUE ASTERISKS!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Dylan's X-tian albums have been semi-resurected by Nick Cave/Will Oldham types, but still get little respect as conventional wisdom tends to solidify around the critical consensus at the time of release. Which is why one shitty press junket has forever tarred CCR's Pendulum, which might be their finest album. Also, Sly's Post-Fresh releases are an excellent choice -- Small Talk is flawless.

And Secret Life of Plants is overwhelmingly emotional.

― musicmope (musicmope), Monday, 10 November 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Dirty.

It's my favorite Sonic Youth album. It's their best album.

No. Shut up.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

"...everything I hate about ILM..."

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

...pertains to self-satisfied tearing down, not attempted redemption of the under-appreciated

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yin and yang, I say.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Besides, don't you mean self-satisfied attempted redemption of the under appreciated?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I will never be satisfied until people recognize how murderous "Sugar Kane" is, so there

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

a-ha's "Scoundrel Days" received some really evil reviews in the press upon its release, and it today more or less forgotten, as a supposed throwaway effort.

The album is brilliant though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

To address your actual point: You'll never budge me off of Daydream Nation, but I do love Dirty. Comes in third or fourth for me.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

that's perfectly reasonable. thank you.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c591/c59162iu6h2.jpg

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

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