Unto the 20. Woof.
20) OBIE TRICE – Got Some Teeth
I realised the other day that I really, really like this song. Think I might’ve started singing it on the bus, though I probably didn’t, cos though I do have shit ideas they don’t tend to be that shit. Or that kind of shit, in any case. The bit where he sort of namechecks ‘Buffalo Girls’ (almost certainly he reckons he’s actually referencing ‘Without Me’, tho) is rubbish though. Also – he notices that Lean Cuisine rhymes. Well done, Obie!
19) THE DARKNESS – I Believe In A Thing Called Love
Weird how I really don’t care for this song any more. Wes hilariously interviews them ‘in the dark’. What a wacky funster, or something spelt fairly similar to that in any case.
18) EMMA BUNTON – Maybe
Wes is interviewing her as well. She laughs at his surname. Wes does not laugh. Hmm. This song is still great, and it’d still be greater if it was sung by someone else. There. Tricky week, cos after last week’s special (i.e. cack) edition, I’ve decided to not post any pictures this week. Hardcore style. So I was gonna do one of those pictures with text (ASCII, is it?) of Fugazi, to commemorate this. Yet somehow I can’t be fucked.
17) LOSTPROPHETS – Burn Burn (NEW ENTRY)
Nu-metal from Wales, so obviously they try to sound like they’re from California, so obviously the singer ends up sounding a bit like Seal when he goes for the high notes. And it’s just pish generally. Hmm.
16) DIDO – White Flag
See, the trouble with not posting pictures is that I end up saying “Hmm” a lot. And swearing. And starting sentences with “And”. I don’t think I’ve said “Anyway” yet, so on that front I’m doing OK. Oh, Wes has cut this short. I would be thankful, but he is a tosspot.
15) LIBERTY X – Jumpin’
Furthermore, you keep hitting signles about which you’ve said pretty much all you’ve got to say. Then you keep pointing out that you keep hitting singles about which you’ve said pretty much all you’ve got to say. This single, for instance, which is of absolutely no interest to anyone whatsoever. Seriously. Say something interesting about this single. No, you can’t. No, you’re WRONG. WRONG. GO AWAY.
14) R KELLY – Thoia Thoing/Step In The Name Of Love (Remix) (NEW ENTRY)
We get played ‘Thoia Thoing’, which sounds a bit like ‘Snake’, but missing Big Tigger and Lyric-Of-The-Year-contender “LIKE TWO GORILLAS IN THE JUNGLE - making luhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhvvvv!!!” They get replaced by a surprisingly non-irritating loop of some digitised voice going “Thoia Thoia Thoia Thoi-a-thoing-a-thoia”. Which is great.
13) JAMELIA – Superstar
On the other hand, not posting pictures does enable one to sit back and have a better look at the quality stuff too. Such as this, which has now been eight weeks in the top 20, outstaying all the other singles that entered in the same week as it, which included Rachel Stevens, Nickelback, Westlife, So Solid Crew, Limp Bizkit, Justin Timberlake, The Chemical Brothers and Mary J Blige. Her previous single got to #37. Her only really big hit before this was about #9. The success of this song is, generally, just rilly rilly great. Huzzah.
12) HOLLY VALANCE – State Of Mind
Realise this doesn’t sound like Add N To (X), but rather like Goldfrapp. Oh. It’s still quite good, though. (Word indicates that’s only the second time I’ve described something as ‘quite good’ this week. Go me!)
11) ANGEL CITY – Love Me Right
This sounds like Dannii Minogue but shit/shitter (delete where preferable), and worryingly is not moving anywhere. Nu-XTM? Oh dear.
Top 10 next – but first – REASONABLY HARD QUIZ. I was trying to think of what the least memorable top 10 single this year was the other day, but in looking at the chart on the week that ‘Superstar’ entered it I think I’ve accidentally found it. I missed out one name from the list of singles I put in Jamelia’s entry. Can you remember it?
10) ROBBIE WILLIAMS – Sexed Up (NEW ENTRY)
What is the point of this single, then? He’s already had, like, loads of them off his album. And this is… pointless, really. It’s a ballad, or at least it’s got a piano on it, and as the title suggests is sung with practically perma-arched eyebrow. Why is it that all the UK pop types want people to be like this man? This horrific ironic self-referencing that masquerades as having something of interest to say that now gets barcode-stamped onto UK Pop Man and Youth TV Presenter Man by default, unless you’re Gareth Gates or Will Young, oddly – what the fuck is it all for? This whole valley of bollocks that suggests that being rude and wearing a Transformers T-shirt is a personality, let’s all go to Starbucks… fuck it. Fuck all of it. Robbie Williams is probably therefore the defining male pop star of our times. Fuck him.
9) PINK – Trouble
This ain’t de-angrifying me any. It is better than the Lostprophets single. That’s not an achievement.
8) SUGABABES – Hole In The Head
Right – question. Why does this namecheck Ricki Lake? She’s not been on telly over here for years, has she? Unless she’s on one of the cable channels, like UK Living or something. Either way, it’s not making much sense.
7) BLUE – Guilty
As Tim Finney suggests, some of them have actually got halfway-decent voices, and it’s quite well-sung, I suppose. They played an album track of theirs on something the other day, about the winter, which wasn’t too bad in a sort of ‘Kiss From A Rose’ way, except obviously not as good. I still do not like this though. So nyer.
6) ATOMIC KITTEN – If You Come To Me
This is not impressing either. I saw the sleeve for their new album on the telly. It’s even worse. The title is written in the font they used to use for the timings on Ski Sunday. But I’m not posting any pictures. Just trust it looks stupid ugly.
5) THE BLACK EYED PEAS – Where Is The Love?
I need to sit down and address this. This is the best selling single of the year, has spent more weeks at number one than any other single this year has done or will do, and has propelled a previously fairly little-known (in UK chart terms) hip-hop outfit to something vaguely approaching superstardom. And yet this song still doesn’t have any real impact on me aside from a kind of uneasy apathy, the feeling that this song fits that badly, that the biggest selling single of this year will be something that people are bandying about as an anti-war song but which to me just doesn’t feel like that, like it’s more sort of generally ‘anti’ lots of things but primarily the media (verse three the backing shifts into quieter ‘contemplative strings’ stuff, as well as this being the last verse of the song, positioning itself as the conclusion, the summation of the main points, and what does it sing about – the stuff the kids see at the cinema). Then you see them having this huge impact on the video-charts, going down an utter storm at the MTV Awards… and despite all that, I really, really just DO NOT CARE about this song. And I dunno what’s gone wrong. I have no bloody clue. I’ve been writing about the top 40 for the past six months now, and this is set to be the most dominant single of the year, and I couldn’t care less about it. Somehow that feels like my fault, and it fucks me off intensely. Jesus.
4) KEVIN LYTTLE – Turn Me On
I’ve forgotten this existed, I got that angry. So I’m going to write about Johnny Cash instead. ‘Hurt’ was not playlisted by Radio 1 or Radio 2. It made the B-List on the digital-only BBC Radio 6. Would it be awfully rude of me to ask what the fuck is up with this? Now, it’s annoying when people start thinking songs have some kind of birthright to be on radio playlists. But the way this song has been treated… Johnny Cash was an old man. He was also a country singer. Is that your trouble right there? It’s like he’s been treated as a ‘fanbase’ band, as having no appeal outside the people that owned his records, as if there was no chance of ‘young people’ appreciating the man, as if ‘Hurt’ automatically Would Not Work. Does it fuck. ‘Hurt’ is the kind of song that makes you stop and listen. I saw Ralph Stanley play this week. He’s 76, has been performing since 1946. First visit to Britain in 1966, then 1970, then 1991. He’s country, certainly. And I got it. Don’t tell me I couldn’t. If you, the BBC, are telling me that Robbie Williams dripping smart-arsed clichés has got more to offer me, more to tell me about my life, about anyone’s life, about life at all, than ‘Hurt’, then I can understand why I don’t listen to you anymore. I remember reading James Dean Bradfield saying that he wasn’t sure if he still wanted to be making music in his 30’s. Fucking dimwit. By the same token, I remember reading James Walsh (of Starsailor) saying he didn’t want to sound like the Buzzcocks, because they play working men’s clubs now, or something. He’s a fucking dimwit too. Music shouldn’t have an expiry date. Trends shouldn’t dictate how music sounds. Six months, everyone will see what’s trendy now as being the preserve of the sad old man in the Fleece and Firkin again. It’s stupid, stupid, all of it. I’m 20 years old. This puts me bang in the middle of Radio 1’s target demographic age-wise. I couldn’t feel more alienated if I tried. Wes is going on about Robbie Williams all afternoon, how him playing Knebworth was a massive event and they’ve made a film of it. Fuck them.
Mr Lyttle, I apologise. I had to say something somewhere, and it just so happened that it was when your record was on. I do love your record. I very much admire the fact that you’re the first top 40 artist from St Vincent. It’s particularly pleasing how it appears to have got popular off the back of the Notting Hill Carnival. ‘Turn Me On’ is bloody great, god bless you, and apologies once again.
3) FATMAN SCOOP ft. CROOKLYN CLAN – Be Faithful
This, too, is bloody great. I might write about it at more length next week, but for now, a question – does he actually say “Be faithful” at any point in the song?
2) BLAZIN’ SQUAD – Flip Reverse (NEW ENTRY)
God, I can barely remember this either. I know the intro actually sounded something close to classic, then it tailed off… then there’s my fear of my own closed-mindedness. It’s how there’s ten of Blazin’ Squad, how none of them apart from Him That Sings The Hook, You Know The One, Him, seem to have any personality, and he only has personality cos he looks like the kid from Mike & Angelo. This is probably a half decent song, but the reek of forced cool is that heavy in the air… do I want to like this, but something inside stops me? Is that my problem? Or is it actually truthfully not much good? It’s how it seems like an approximation of how this kind of record should sound… there just seems something vaguely dislikeable at the heart of this record, this band. It’s not a ballad, though, so well done there.
1) KYLIE MINOGUE – Slow (NEW ENTRY)
I’ve written enough (too much?) for today. This doesn’t go anywhere. It’s number one, because We All Love Kylie. This is probably the most interesting record in the top 40 this week, in that it’s number one (by an apparently quite cosy margin, too), yet it just… doesn’t sound like one. Emperor’s New Clothes? Oh… whatever.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)
And I wasn't angry before that Robbie Williams record. Then something clicked, and I dunno what happened, but... well. I dunno. This reads like how I used to sound when I was 17 and got pissed off at people taking my stuff off the stereo at school because they couldn't handle my subversive alternative vibes and Dr Fox had eaten their brains.
But God was I cross. I probably still am and will continue to be.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― robin carmody (robin carmody), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)
Is it just me, or does the Liberty X song (and video) actually distill, like, a years' worth of great pop into one song by nicking stuff from EVERYWHERE? You've got a woman in a box dressed in black, like that Xtina video. You've got a blokey dressed like Justin, and indeed singing in his falsetto. You've got "uh-oh". You've got the electroclash touch. You've got the cool industrial beat-breakdown midway through.
Hurrah for Jamelia, she warms my heart like a plucky Brit at Wimbledon.
― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)
But sometimes... ooooh, sometimes...
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)
Things were summed up a little depressingly midweek when I went into the local HMV to try and buy "Hurt" and it *wasn't even there*, while IIRC some ones that didn't make the Top 40 were. It was there a day or two later, admittedly, but still...
It does say a lot that Williams is such an omnipresent figure; it is particularly our media and the music stations that further his success. It's not that I dislike commercial chart music, it's just that the *wrong people* within that are championed, and new blood is limited by the gatekeeping. Williams' music is entirely nondescript - 'Let me Entertain You' live was unlistenable - and yes, sadly, his persona does seem to be a winner in this day and age. He summarises so much that is tunnel-visioned and sneeringly cynical in much of this country's attitude. Wes represents this even more than RW himself; it is every bit as much a mean-spirited outlook as an anti-intellectual one. The only real enthusiasm Wes showed - barring that for the likes of Busted and RW - was for his inane prattle concerning celebrity etc. Oh, and his utterly inconsequential and typical talk of 'pornstar names' with Rachel Stevens. It does make you despair of our culture; which values and is in awe of celebrity, money and, wow, the naughtiness of... wait for it... sex to such a degree.I can't imagine Wes being a person who'd have any real opinions about anything; just as much as he's certainly not a chap I'd want to share a pint with.
― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)
Yeah, but for the most part what you've got is PVC lingerie and some blokes with canes.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)
poor guy
― bahtology, Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)
PS More Erick Sermon pics please.
― Nick H, Sunday, 9 November 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)
Why does this namecheck Ricki Lake?
Exactly -- it almost ruins it for me.
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)
Now? I can't remember a time when it wasn't that way; though maybe R1's 'no songs before last Tuesday' rule made a difference.
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 10 November 2003 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)
Tom Jones!
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)
Kish Kash is now down to #66.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)
Despite appearing with Simon Mayo -- unlucky lads. Still, once upon a time them and Underworld were Huaoge, and Suede too. That's quite odd. Why are Jaxx so not massive? (asks someone who hasn't got Kish Kash yet)
― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)
B Jaxx IMHO were absolutely insane not to trail the album with "Good Luck" as a single. "Lucky Star" doesn't look as though it's going to get them very far (and the Mercury effect certainly hasn't worked, or perhaps has worked, on D Rascal). Can't get away with Just Putting Out The Album at this time of year.
Re. "Hurt" at #39; quite curious that no J Cash records at all have re-entered the album chart after his death.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)
Assuming Lucky Star is out this week too, then they've gone and made the same mistake again - it's very, very difficult to see it going top 10. Which is a shame, because it certainly deserves to.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)
are these guys as GREAT as this description makes them sound???
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 10 November 2003 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)
(though his last single did rubbish if I remember rightly)
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)
But seriously - where have all the Jaxx fans gone? What about all the people who went mental for Red Alert or Bingo Bango or Romeo or fucking WHERE'S YOUR HEAD AT?! All of them pretty much ubiquitous for months on end. It's difficult to imagine any rock band turning in such a drop in sales without an equivalent decline in quality. Maybe dance music is (commercially) dead after all. Is this what Daft Punk have to look forward to on their next release?
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)
I don't think Lucky Star's the grestest choice of single, either - it's relatively hard to get into, takes a few more listens than you really want on the first grab-em-by-the-balls-and-twist single.
J0hn, Lostprophets are all that plus a singer who sounds like him out of Mansun.
― cis (cis), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 November 2003 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)
Lucky Star is a fantastic SECOND single.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 10 November 2003 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)
People into commercial dance want house music or pop house music, Kish Kash is not that in any sense. Daft Punk's next record? Who knows.
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)
By this logic "Right Here's The Spot" should have been released, I guess? Except that it fits too perfectly into the "Yo-Yo"/"Breakaway" tradition of amazing schizodelic house groove without a singalong chorus (although screaming "yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo" at a Jaxx concert is brilliant obv.)
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)
I think Ronan is right upthread really, its more to do with bad timing, bad marketing and a largely indifferent media.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― Nick H, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)
NB: this is not a bad thing and nor is it necessarily determinative of a particular song's pop potential (eg. Electric Six's "Gay Bar" has a more memorable chorus than "Danger! High Voltage!" but I reckon the latter is the better and more memorable pop song). However when it comes to recent crossover dance hits this factor is much more important, as is clear from pretty much *any* big dance hit of the last few years.
If anything I reckon the fact that the "straightforward house groove" + "big obvious chorus" is the only way to get a dance hit these days is pretty depressing - it's hard to imagine a contemporary equivalent to 'ardkore doing well these days because (like everything on Kish Kash) they're usually structured as a string of different hooks rather than as a groove with a big chorus.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)
A little nore on topic I don't think that Kish Kash has commercial potential really, in a big sense. People here I suspect are overestimating the Jaxx's popularity, now or ever. In fairness say alot of dance people shun them for being pop and not being darker or techier like the Chemical Brothers, or housier like Daft Punk. They are more quirky than banging often, which people on the dance or pop side can't really handle.
They're such smart lowbrow that alot of people I know can't seem to love them, I can't articulate their feelings fully but I do get some sense of them.
The great irony for me though is that this is being cited as a point to consider for the "is dance dead debate" when if Kish Kash had one straight up house banger it could go top ten. So the problem is more that Kish Kash isn't able to be simply called dance.
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)
Yes exactly! When people say dance is dead maybe the problem they're actually talking about is that it has been too successful, such that what were dance values (repetitive groove + big hook) have become entrenched pop values, and thus have become something of an orthodoxy which it is difficult to break away from. I suspect that something like "So Much Love To Give" (which turns the ten - or even five - second soundbyte into the entirety of the song) is half a parody of this, half curiosity to see if this approach can be so magnified and intensified that you can come out the other side.
Otherwise, arguably nearly all of the interesting dance music of the past few years (grime, electro, Jaxx, Kompakt etc.) has been a result of attempts - conscious or not - to make dance music whose attraction is based on different or more complex or more idiosyncratically integrated components. But this development has not progressed to the stage where the Jaxx can capitalise on it commercially; at the moment it is still only a counter-force within (non-urban) popular dance music.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)
I still maintain, like a broken record, that Daft Punk's remix of Mothership Reconnection from 1997 was it, fits the movement you describe in the last paragraph, the ideas there haven't been explored fully in any sense. I also think, and this is sort of happening, that something like acid house is completely ripe as an influence, those are certainly the two areas I see as the future at the moment. I'd say electroclash influenced house aswell only that there seems to be so much of it good and awful that it'd be a bit sweeping.
The thing which bugs me at the moment is the ridiculous amount of pop latin house tracks or samba house tracks, I mean how many more will be made, if they're the price for enjoying "It Just Won't Do" a few hundred times last summer then send me back!
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)
I guess the sedimentation of this content into comforting form is already happening, but as a temporary cure electro has served its purpose well.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)
Looks like I've missed out on the talk yet again, but 'Plug It In' is blatantly 2nd/3rd single material anyway (look, next is year is so/should so be JC's year, and as a single, its should do the same job it does on the album - consolidate the crazed, funky party-pop genius therein). I thought 'Lucky Star' was a great choice for lead, but the sales on it and Kish Kash have stopped suprising since I re-accepted the clusterfucked morass of disloyalty and selective memory that grips the buying habits of the British public (see Richard X) every so often. Also, if the many window-sized posters around London are anything to go by, this record is being adverstised something fierce. As usual, I have to conclude that people are stupid. Well, shit.
Steeeeeevvvee, do you HONESTLY believe 'Good Luck' has a "hard to remember chorus"? That's as wacky as the 'Breakaway' chorus mentalism ("I'm on fiiiiii-yyyyeeeeerrrrrr" = class).
― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 November 2003 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)