Albums that were given a hard time by the critics, but which seem to have become classics on a longer term

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A few examples:

Duran Duran: Rio
ABBA: Arrival
Fleetwood Mac: Rumours
Eagles: Hotel California
Marvin Gaye: Here My Dear
Black Sabbath: Paranoid

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Hellhammer - Apocalyptic Raids

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 10 November 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Gary Numan - The Pleasure Principle

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Rumours?!!!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Exile on Main Street.

Rumours was universally lauded at the time.

― Burr (Burr), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

A few examples:
Duran Duran: Rio
ABBA: Arrival
Fleetwood Mac: Rumours
Eagles: Hotel California
Marvin Gaye: Here My Dear
Black Sabbath: Paranoid

Rio - not regarded as a classic by anyone apart from Geir
Arrival - probably got the best reviews of any Abba album at the time
Rumours - did anyone give this a hard time?!?!?
Hotel California - who says this is a classic?
Here My Dear - fair enough
Paranoid - ditto

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Rio IS classic.
And I was one of those critics dissing it at the time, being a thirteen year old boy jealous of all the teeny-bopper lust Simon and Nick were getting.

― p.j. (Henry), Monday, 10 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Rio - not regarded as a classic by anyone apart from Geir

Dunno bout you, but everytime the tellybox digs up classic "stock" video images of the 80s, it's usually an animated train going up Peter Gabriels nostril, Robert Palmer acting like a wonky Gerry Anderson puppet in front of a backing band of identically dressed big-bosomed laydeez, and Simon Le Bon perched on the pointy bit of a big yacht in tha tropics singing something about his bird called Rio!!!!!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Lodger.

― mark e (mark e), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Second Lodger

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Kid A.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 10 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I've yet to hear anyone call Kid A a classic.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Kid A is a classic...classic piece of crap, that is!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Its my favourite Radiohead. Although still working through Hail...

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Pinkerton by Weezer was actually called by Rolling Stone the worst cd released that year. It is now pretty much considered the group's best cd and by many a classic.

― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

neil young's "on the beach" was completely raped by NME at the time, was it not? but in the run up to its reissue it became considered ultra classic (which it is, so good)

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

WTF? Kid A!?! It's the only Radiohead record nominated for a Best Album Grammy!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 November 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Never Mind the Bollocks - Considered a big disappointment when first released (mainly for lack of new material), now considered the single best document of the Sex Pistol's music.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

can u say?: Joni Mitchell - The Hissing Of Summer Lawns

― Paul (scifisoul), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, the sex pistols had more music?
(tongue firmly in cheek)

― todd swiss (eliti), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Was was the initial reaction to Wild Man Fischer?

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The Cure's 3 Imaginary Boys, Seventeen Seconds, Faith and Pornography all got quite big kickings in various NME/Melody Maker reviews when first released.

Also I seem to remember the first Stone Roses album got a 6 out of 10 in the NME as well.

― flowersdie (flowersdie), Monday, 10 November 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Kid A is definitely a classic to me, and my favorite album by the band. I even thought it had a fair amount of love on ILX. Regardless, I don't know if the critics have changed their minds about it yet or if they will.

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember reading some heavy duty hate for "straight outta compton" & "the chronic".

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

*Never Mind the Bullocks* won the pazz and jop poll the year it came out; *Rumours* may have finished second (same year, 1977) -- either way, it was way up there. So both of those choices strike me as ridiculous. The two bands that came to mind immediately when I saw the thread name were Black Sabbath (which somebody has mentioned) and AC/DC (which nobody has); no particular albums, though. I guess by the time *Back in Black* came out, AC/DC were getting SOME support from critics. (Then again, so were Sabbath. But both bands were WIDELY dismised at first, I think. In fact, Zeppelin may have been, too -- though not as harshly, if I remember my history books right.)

― chuck, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

*Paul's Boutique* and *Kid A* got really good reviews, too, when they came out, and finished pretty high in critics polls. So I don't get them, either. *Pinkerton,* though, strikes me as a smart choice.

― chuck, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Rumours was lauded when it came out - OK .. But all through the 80's and early 90's, critics continually referred to it as the epitome of 70's rock excess - i.e. it was not cool to like Rumours after 1979.

Remember Wayne Campbell "... if you lived in the suburbs, it was issued to you."

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Their disliked-by-critics legacy is a bit overstated (or I guess it is--according to an old Xgau article it was mostly Rolling Stone who didn't care for them) but Led Zeppelin seem like they belong here. It's certainly worth noting that IV finished 30th in the very first Pazz & Jop--behind, you know, Preservation Act 2 and Joy of Cooking (6th! who the fuck remembers Joy of Cooking beside Christgau?!)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

it was mostly Rolling Stone who didn't care for them
Funny, because Rolling Stone is the kind of "typical California 70's rock bullshit" that Fleetwood Mac was accused of being.

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

LOTS of important-in-retrospect metal/hard rock bands fit here. Motorhead, I bet. Van Halen, even. And I wonder how good the reviews Metallica's *Kill Em All* got when it came out were. Not so great, I bet....(And I bet there's lots of disco that fits here, as well.)

― chuck, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Rumours ever fell out of favor. It was in the RS top 100 albums in 1987. It was always sort of "We hate California soft rock, but we'll make an exception for Rumours."

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

dave matos is talking about zep

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

rolling stone hates california soft rock?!!!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The Carpenters?

― Jeremy (Jeremy), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Right. Knew it. Cancel that bit.

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

anyhow, metal owns this thread to the extent anything does (I mean bangs repped for sabbath, xgau repped for zep)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"rolling stone hates california soft rock?!!!"

They pretended to intermittently in the mid- to late-80s, the Kurt Loder era.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

you forget the 70s and the early 80s and the 90s

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, 60s garage rock might own this thread even more than metal (or disco). That was the whole point of *Nuggets,* when it came out -- to make a claim for a music that had been dismissed by "serious" rock fans.

― chuck, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Lynyrd Skynyrd probably fit here, too. I forget what their reviews were like (I BET plenty of idiot critics dismissed them as dumbass rednecks); I KNOW they never placed in Pazz & Jop (which makes Drive By Truckers recent if deserving finishes somewhat ironic, in a way.)

― chuck, Monday, 10 November 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

it is weird to think that saying "psychotic reaction" was crazy talk once

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

you still have critics that dismiss lynyrd skynyrd

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

you still have critics that dismiss lynyrd skynyrd

...as well they should.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

shouldn't you be lynching pows somewhere?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Pavement Wowee Zowee

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, that last one is maybe not a classic in the sense that Geir's examples in the first post are, but it's a record which is most certainly considered in a far more positive light now than when it was originally reviewed by critics.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know Spin loved it at the time - maybe the Voice can provide the tiebreaker

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I know Rolling Stone gave it like two stars but that's pretty par for the course for them

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean on that basis we could include Nirvana - Nevermind

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 10 November 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 232 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Yeah, that "benefit of hindsight" thing cuts two ways.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I.e.: I just got the first issue of *Tracks* in the mail today!

― chuck, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh to hell with the carping, let's just all talk about how great "Little Old Country Boy" is

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

god if they would all just read cliff notes to baudrillard! ;-)
actually, that is a good point. I think that the idea of "authenticity" is very much a part of american liberal discourse so as long as there are liberals in america there will be vacuous singersongwriters at least.

its really part of the culture... as much as i am an east coast liberal (or maybe midatlantic), everyone born in a small pretty town in vermont is born with a grateful dead and beatles record, and they all go to great schools and then write liberal minded books and the process continues. eurofetishism in their lives happens when they are too old, ie mid-40s, year in provence, etc., for Associates!

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Little Old Country Boy" = wierdest mouth-harp and yodelling intro ever! Put this song next to Sly's "Spaced Cowboy" for the hick-funk genre that coulda been...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not too "rootsy" myself (at least not when it comes to the American meaning of roots), but alt.country acts such as Wilco and Jayhawks have managed to make really great albums once they have escaped their country roots a little and taken inspiration from the likes of Byrds and Gram Parsons to write really good songs.

There are only two great Wilco albums, but they are the two most recent ones so far. Which means I will be looking forward to new stuff from Wilco. Never been particularly keen on "No Depression" or "Anodyne" though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Put this song next to Sly's "Spaced Cowboy" for the hick-funk genre that coulda been...

And Bobby Rush's "I Wanna Do the Do"!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually love Anodyne, and everything else seems to sound cheap in comparison to me.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

um, Geir, the Byrds and Gram Parsons ARE their country roots, dude.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The Strokes are the newest permutation of roots music.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I try to properly steer this thread toward Armed Forces Radio and German Record stores and nobody bites for some reason.

But it makes a larger point, which, the last couple of posts allude to. Roots music is a canard, the flip side of Space Age Bachelor Pad Music. As SABPM attempted to imagine the future with the intellectual tools of its present, Roots music rarely means the actual roots of music, but the recent personal past of the listener/musician who attempts to emulate it. Roots music was once Howlin' Wolf and the Everly Brothers, whose singles were -- what? -- three year older than the music that was imitating it, such as the Stones? Then the Stones became Roots or "authentic" rock, even though their late Sixties style was just a fashion they chose to (profitably) stick with. And so on, until we have Wilco treating the Byrds (whom I am a little obsessed with, btw) as if they were Dock Boggs.

Likewise, if we wanted to be honest, current roots music would include A Certain Ratio and Gary Numan.

I am sidestepping the issue of Ry Cooder types.

I mean, Europeans view Tom Waits and Nick Cave as blues music. They usually don't/can't see it as the cabaret it is.

Funny, the Atom Heart version of "Angie" just came on my iTunes to underline my point.

― musicmope (musicmope), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Excuse the minor grammatical problems with the above. I just woke up...

― musicmope (musicmope), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

To Matos: Byrds are also their pop roots.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"The middle never gets any respect."

This is crazy talk, o nate. Everyone in America who doesn't sleep on a park bench or own a space shuttle considers themselves middle class.

And every "serious" mass publication bows before the altar of middlebrow art. The Times pats middlebrowism on the head seven days a week--how much more respect do you need?

Middlebrow art generally promises either to make high culture easy to swallow or to make low culture seem good for you. Sometimes both. The smartly tasteful electronic adornments of Wilco, the "good acting" of Mystic River--you get art without making any intellectual effort, you get pop without dirtying your hands or your mind.

And of course middlebrow art is often "good"--vacuum-sealed "quality" is its whole reason for being. Marvelling at the formal accomplishments of middlebrow art is like saying the products in a grocery store are shockingly pleasing to behold.

What is comes down to is, middlebrows don't deserve our respect if only because they so desperately crave it. This way of approaching culture is a post-puritan residue that needs to be scrubbed away like the ideological fungus it is.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to pick up my anti-crazy pills at the drugstore before it closes.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ROLLING STONE NAMED PINKERTON THE WORST ALBUM OF 1996!?!?!?!?!?!?!

WHAT the FUCK!?!?!?!?

Seriously, does anybody have their best-of/worst-of article from that year?? I'd really like to see their justification for doing such a stupid thing.

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 12 November 2003 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

ROLLING STONE NAMED PINKERTON THE WORST ALBUM OF 1996!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Dude, they read my mind!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on, it's not THAT bad!!

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 12 November 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Marvelling at the formal accomplishments of middlebrow art is like saying the products in a grocery store are shockingly pleasing to behold.

Keith, do you read Lileks?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I personally find the sheer cornucopia of a Super Walmart to be quite stunning.

― bugged out, Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate, believe it or not I've hardly ever read him. (PS, Dirty is a great record.)

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Keith, isn't your favorite record of the year Liz Phair?

― devil's advocate (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

because that record sounds REAL middlebrow to me.

― devil's advocate (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate, believe it or not I've hardly ever read him.

Jeez, the man has more to rhapsodize about vis-a-vis Target than any sane individual should. Maybe it ties into his neocon dogma or something.

Remember: today's middlebrow is tomorrow's retro-kitsch!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate: you're saying I'd hate him, huh?

Matos: Embracing the mundane /= middlebrow
Also, not every high/low hybrid is middlebrow. A lot of the best pop of the past 50 (at least) years is about confounding those categories.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't call it high/low--more like middle/low. and obviously I'm interested in your answer as an answer, partly because I don't hear it the way you do and partly because you were so fucking vehement above that I couldn't resist. but are you actually saying the record is mundane and that you're embracing it? (I don't think so but you can see where I'd think so based on your post)

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no, I'm saying the album is concerned with the mundane--mundane not being negative here, just in the sense of the everyday and ordinary,

What about the record strikes you as middlebrow?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 03:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Emperor: In The Nightside Eclipse

You've got to be kidding, that one was already deemed a classic months before its release - it was probably the most hyped black metal album ever.

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 12 November 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Pixies' "Trompe le Monde", anyone?

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 18 November 2003 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

Remember when Talvin Singh was treated like a god in the UK?
― musicmope (musicmope), Monday, 10 November 2003 21:58 (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...

― Limoncello Carlin (The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:01 (seventeen years ago)

Kid A is a classic...classic piece of crap, that is!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, November 10, 2003 5:01 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― display name fatigue (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:05 (seventeen years ago)

haha, i was just going to paste that.

― caek, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:08 (seventeen years ago)

this would apply much more to amnesiac. most reviews called it a collection of b-sides while kid a had been glorified from the beginning on. not sure how critics would rank kid a and amnesiac these days. i still think amnesiac is a better album with much stronger songs than kid a. and additionally it flows beautifully.

― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:39 (seventeen years ago)

my recollection is that a lot of critics "admired" 'kid a' and said, "it would have been lame if they'd just done ok computer 2," except you got the feeling that, well, SOME DECENT TUNES WOULD'VE BEEN NICE? and that when 'amnesiac' came along with the promise of being more rocking and tune-oriented, the critics were a bit let down (dys) because it's actually 70% filler.

― display name fatigue (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:42 (seventeen years ago)

I never got the impression that critics gave "Kid A" a hard time. Surely, unlike most of ILM'ers, they will still rank "OK Computer" and possibly also "The Bends" as better albums. But "Kid A" is generally rated too. It disappointed a lot of fans at the time though. That is, fans that were heavily into 90s Radiohead, not fans that had never liked them much before "Kid A".

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 14:51 (seventeen years ago)

Geir, what's your source for believing that Rumours was critically panned?

― WmC, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:00 (seventeen years ago)

Everything I read in the 80s and early 90s was about how Fleetwood Mac used to be this great blues band, and then everything was ruined and they became a boring MOR/AOR band in the 70s instead, but sold lots of records on it.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:07 (seventeen years ago)

in Finland maybe.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:08 (seventeen years ago)

So it was critically panned 10 years after it was released?

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:09 (seventeen years ago)

Everything I read in the 80s and early 90s was about how Fleetwood Mac used to be this great blues band
Now this is funny.

― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:10 (seventeen years ago)

Wasn't it, um, not rated highly by the NME at the time?

As opposed to "Tusk" which got ten, didn;t it?

― Mark G, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:11 (seventeen years ago)

Blues rock being very popular among rock critics in the 80s and 90s (xp)

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:11 (seventeen years ago)

Ridiculous nominations all through this thread.

Kid A, #3 Pazz & Jop:

http://robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres00.php

Trompe Le Monde, #18 Pazz & Jop

Tusk, #21 Pazz & Jop

http://robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres79.php

How any of those qualify as "being given a hard time by critics" is beyond me. (Except to the extent that every notable album ever released has been given a hard time by some critics.)

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:53 (seventeen years ago)

Here's that Pixies one:

http://robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres91.php

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:53 (seventeen years ago)

(I mean, I grant that Tusk got a hard time compared to Rumours -- one of the stupidest nominations on the whole thread, obv -- but not compared to 99.9 % of other albums on the planet.)

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 15:55 (seventeen years ago)

Wowee Zowee, #17 P&J

http://robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres95.php

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 16:05 (seventeen years ago)

I think this whole thread is Exhibit A in Whatever Geir Says, Believe the Opposite.

Also, this is OTM: "Except to the extent that every notable album ever released has been given a hard time by some critics.)"

― WmC, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 16:08 (seventeen years ago)

strange as it may sound, not everyone on this side of the atlantic gives a flying jizzwad about pazz and jop.

― display name fatigue (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 16:09 (seventeen years ago)

strange as it may sound, you haven't come up with anything better.

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 16:11 (seventeen years ago)

five years & no mention of The Stooges?

― Ricky Apples (Pillbox), Tuesday, 3 February 2009 17:26 (seventeen years ago)

I can imagine in which context Hotel California is considered 'classic', but man...

― Shin Oliva Suzuki, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 17:40 (seventeen years ago)

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