Earliest instance of surround coding

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I am speaking of the current surround sound here, not Quadrophonia, which was stone dead by the late 70s anyway.

The oldest CD I have on which I can hear obvious surround code is Depeche Mode's "Violator". My copy of "Violator" was bought on the same excact day when it was released, in March 1990, so it isn't possible that the surround code may have been added in later editions. "Violator" obviously has four-dimensional stereo, particularly obvious towards the end of the album ("Blue Dress" and "Clean" in particular)

But, was this the first one, or are there earlier surround recordings from the "current" era? Any electronica releases that were earlier for instance?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

What do you mean by 'surround code' and 'four-dimensional stereo'?

There was a pseudo-surround scheme in vogue on two-channel releases in the early 90s, I think it was called QSound. I'm not I could tell the difference between something recorded with this method and someone just making use of ambisonic mics or phasing techniques.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

All CDs recorded in Qsound are obviously marked with the Q logo anyway. There were only a few.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

So, what do you mean by 'surround code'?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Four dimensional stereo. Started with the Dolby Surround technology in the early 90s (or late 80s?)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, OK - so you're playing this Depeche Mode CD back through a Pro Logic decoder and you're getting audio from the rear channels? And it's not marked with any DS logo? Or are you experiencing something that seems like surround sound from a two-speaker setup?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of four speakers here.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you or are you not running the CD player through a Pro Logic decoder? You won't get anything other than two copies of the same stereo signal through four speakers if it's a conventional CD.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Dolby Surround works with conventional CDs, yes.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Only if you decode the matrixed signal - which I presume you're doing. Is it worth asking you again if you're used a Pro Logic decoder?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I probably do then.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Even my portable CD player has such a decoder it seems though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir's responses are baffling to me. Are you saying that you are connecting four speakers to your portable CD player? I've never seen a portable CD player that had more than one stereo ouput jack.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't need four output jacks. That is the difference between quadrophonia and surround.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably not, Geir. How are these four speakers connected to your hi-fi? Is something different coming through the rear pair compared to the front pair?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

In the case of the portable player, I use headphones that have four speakers. And, in the same way a headphone works in stereo using only one jack, it may also work with four channels.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir, a stereo output jack is one jack, yes, but it carries two channels. It does not carry four channels. Take it apart and look at the wiring.

If you only have one stereo output jack on the CD player, you're only getting two channels coming out of the CD - no matter how many speakers you have hooked up to your amplifier.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, you've lost me now. Headphones with four speakers? A web reference to such a device might be handy here.

You're not going to get four discrete channels off a conventional CD through a stereo jack but you *may* get a matrixed virtual surround off a suitably encoded CD (and I don't think Violator is such a disc).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the part where Geir mentions that he has four ears.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this the most boring thread in the history of ILM?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It's quite amusing.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

You're not going to get four discrete channels off a conventional CD through a stereo jack but you *may* get a matrixed virtual surround off a suitably encoded CD (and I don't think Violator is such a disc).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not going to get four discrete channels out of any CD through a stereo jack. A stereo jack carries 2 channels. Period. And so-called "virtual surround" is still only two channels, isn't it?

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Correct, the 'stereo jack' bit wasn't meant to be part of the qualification. CD = two channels, always. Two channels with matrixed surround data only apparent if you decode it and play it back though more than two speakers, perhaps, but two channels nevertheless.

I'm dying to find out about Geir's special headphones.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Two channels with matrixed surround data only apparent if you decode it and play it back though more than two speakers, perhaps, but two channels nevertheless

My understanding of "virtual surround" is that it is the opposite of this - ie., it means taking a 5.1 surround source and converting it so that it can be played back through two speakers, while still supposedly preserving some of the "surround" effect.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, sorry, sloppy wording on my part. Virtual Surround generally involves taking the two-channel downmix from a 5.1 source (whether the downmix is done by the studio and available as a separate playback option, or done on-the-fly by the player) and adding some FX to it to make it sound 'spacier'.

Dolby Surround is what preceded Dolby Digital (the standard in DVD encoding) and is surround data embedded in a stereo signal.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir's responses are baffling to me

Indeed

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Geir's just winding me up cos I had the temerity to defend him on the Smiths thread.

Come on, Geir, let's see these fantastic cans!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all gone quiet over Gier!

As an professional in the world of audio and a member of the Sacred Order of Debunking Wanker Audiophiles I can safely say that pretty much everything he's stated on this thread is made-up, drug-induced SHIT.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 14 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember from the days of Quadrophonic that there were indeed headphones with two separate full-range speakers in each ear cup, each of which handled one of the channels. The cups were larger than normal (tho' not by a lot) and had one speaker just ahead of the ear and one just behind.

― nickn (nickn), Friday, 14 November 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir is insane and an alien, you must take this into account whenever attempting to tranquilise him.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 November 2003 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

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