edgar varese

I think if you like Webern then you would probably like varese (haven't got much more to offer here: i only have one Cd of webern's music anyway though i want to get the complete recordings).

Will try to find something more interesting to say. It's not as though I listen to him regularly, but I do like him.

Someone I work with, who is originally from Canada, and who knows vastly more about classical music than I do, commented on a distinctive way that American composers use the trumpet. I think I know what he meant, and if so, I think I hear it in Varese. There are moments in "Integrales" which remind me vaguely of Copland (who I'm not actually very familiar with, and don't even like, so this may be mistaken). There's that one snippet that momentarily sounds as though it could be from a cowboy movie. I think it's interesting how American Varese sounds.

Actually I can't see any points of comparison between Webern and Varese tho I like both.

I had the two Boulez-conducted discs on Sony, I didn't warm to them (but I'd heard the Craft first, and first impressions go a long way). Boulez makes a rule of recording 'Déserts' without the electronic tape interludes, which he's done twice now; while it's interesting to study the acoustic sections on their own, the whole piece is based around the transitions from the already extremely abstract orchestral music and the completely alien tape music.

I still need to hear the renditions on that recent 'complete works' set. And I need to see more of this stuff live. Which is hard; even now, this is extremely hard music to get a symphony to cooperate with, so it's seldom played. Michael Tilson Thomas played 'Déserts' with the SF Symphony two years ago, and it was basically a botch; cracked notes, onstage fumbling, a general sense of the player's total alienation from the piece. It's saying something, because it's a great symphony that doesn't have a problem with difficult pieces (like Ives' Fourth, no problem) but 'Déserts' was too much.

pretty big problem with a lot of 20th century classical. I saw a Xenakis concert abt a month back but there's very little of these kind of things going on in london.

I've seen the varese album second hand and didn't get it. damn.

I thought only one of boulez's recordings of 'deserts' was without the tape part. frankly i don't get that.

then theres poeme electronique.

and...

1. Tuning Up performed by Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra - 5:00
2. Amérique performed by Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra - 4:38
3. Poème Électronique (Varese) - 8:02
4. Arcana performed by Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra - 18:22
5. Nocturnal performed by Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra / Sarah Leonard - 10:25
6. Un Grand Sommeil Noir performed by Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra / Mireille Delunsch - 4:08
7. Un Grand Sommeil Noir [Original Version] performed by Mireille Delunsch / Francois Kerdoncuff - 2:46
8. Offrandes, I: Chanson de Là-Haut performed by ASKO Ensemble / Sarah Leonard - 3:12
9. Offrandes, II: La Croix du Sud performed by ASKO Ensemble / Sarah Leonard - 3:37
10. Hyperprism performed by ASKO Ensemble - 4:18
11. Octandre, I: Assez Lent performed by ASKO Ensemble - 2:34
12. Octandre, II: Très Vif et Nerveux performed by ASKO Ensemble - 1:46
13. Octandre, III: Grave--Animé et Jubilatoire performed by ASKO Ensemble - 2:18
14. Intégrales performed by ASKO Ensemble - 10:18
15. Ecuatorial performed by ASKO Ensemble / Kevin Deas - 11:27
16. Ionisation performed by ASKO Ensemble - 5:51
17. Density 21-5 performed by ASKO Ensemble / Jacques Zoon - 4:05
18. Déserts: 1st Episode (Varese) - 3:12
19. Déserts: 1st Interpolation of Organised... (Varese) - 2:26
20. Déserts: 2nd Episode (Varese) - 7:34
21. Déserts: 2nd Interpolation (Varese) - 3:14
22. Déserts: 3rd Episode (Varese) - 1:37
23. Déserts: 3rd Interpolation (Varese) - 3:09
24. Déserts: 4th Episode (Varese) - 3:06
25. Dance for Burgess performed by ASKO Ensemble - 1:48

The piece for solo flute is Density 21.5. Sure wish I liked flutes.

milton- I'll listen to those again before I comment but I think the naxos disc also has separate tracks for the concrete episodes (will check on this).

he is insufferable. a hammer without a handle.

>those are the best bits! (in context, obv)

agreed, yet I can hardly wait for a copy that lets me easily program just the interludes.

the tactile feedback sections where you can nearly see the man violently shoving the microphone right down into the speakercone... savage

I play the flute, & i've performed it on several occations

Don't you know that Boulez knows best? Better than the composer, better than the audience, better than the entire human race etc

The deal is, Debussy opened the door for solo flute works. Edgar Varese walked through that door, ahead of his time. Trained as an engineer he was very excited by new sounds....attempting to transcend city sounds into new ideas of dissonance and consonance and such. One must recall, that cities were being built, new ideas of construction and the skyscraper came into being. To this end, he explored the full range of acoustic instrument preferring not to reinvent the wheel, theoretically speaking. Even in school, he chose not to follow the rules of theory to compose. He was well liked, and knew everyone of his time. Density 21.5 was also a commissioned piece: George Barerres (sp?) requested he compose it for the inauguration of the Platinum flute at the 1938 (I think was the year) World's Fair. The title is derived from the density of platinum; however, recent study shows that the density is actually something like 21.53 (or whatever...another digit) and Varese wanted the title corrected, but it never took. The piece is about exploring acoustically electronic sounds. Varese is considered the 'Father of Electronic Music.' Varese was french born but spent most of his adult life in America. He knew, among other famous personalities such as Picasso, Anais Nin, who wrote in her 3rd diary (if memory serves) around page 140 or so where she quotes him in the peak of his depression something to the effect of "America does not like my music...." After Density, Varese really fell into quite a funk and didn't compose a thing!

His house was quite interesting with all kinds of instruments donated to him by friends. It wasn't until the late 50s that he received his first anonymous donation of some electronic equipment from Ampex Corporation in Redwood City, California, USA. He was ecstatic. He also worked with Phillips Corp. and he was at several other world fairs. Philips pulled him out of retirement, for all intense purposes, in his 70s! People had forgotten he was still alive.

Density 21.5 explored the hemiola (3 notes evenly distributed against 2 beats), the triplet, duples (8th notes), and the idea of dramatic expression wherein, I sense, the loud/soft dynamic markings are not so much about a "classical" creation of volume, rather about an "electric" sound of wooshing or leaning in and out, and sometimes suddenly the volume is turned up. This piece explores the complete range of the flute, from middle C to D4....although there are a few other 4th octave notes the flute can play.

Between Debussy & Varese, the literature for solo flute was opened widely between these 2 efforts, and other pieces are in the fore as pieces to play for solo flute, Jolivet....Honegger.....and much more. Density isn't played publicly as much anymore, which is sad. It's a piece you either love or hate, generally....I, as a flutist, like it very much because it feels like a whole new vocabulary of notes.

Many up & coming flutists tend to not play this piece accurately, ignoring the rhythms at times, playing parts too fast, not understanding the "electric" nature of the piece.

Varese is a very interesting personality to me. He was clearly an intelligent and passionate man. I have records of his with brass, percussion and other instruments. It takes a bit of getting used to, and for those who are more major/minor oriented, this music is disturbing and aggressive and senseless. However, as a musician, his music is difficult to play effectively, requires volumes of air, control and thinking your way through the story, and knowledge of one's instrument.

I am pleased to say that I am lucky in that I've been asked to play these 2 pieces back to back at a modern music concert tomorrow, and I chose them as contrasting pieces of the 20th century in the flute repertoire, the Syrinx being rather melodic and somewhat haunting and the story line quite clear and the colors expressive versus the angularity, the wide intervals, the intensity of the dramatic dynamic markings, the key clicks (which should sound like a cork popping), and not rushing through the rests. Syrinx keeps that Bb coming back, so having a steady Bb every time one arrives at it is important. The section on the second page is clearly about modes and many flub this section (Bb/B/Db/Ebb....). Varese is about the rhythmic structure, that hemiola keeps coming back and the last note of these always gets short shrift unless well practiced....the F/E/F# figure (2 16ths/8th notes into a tie....)

Both Debussy & Varese were also interested in expanding the range of individual instruments.....

In this way, both Debussy & Varese contributed greatly to pulling the flute out of the orchestra and into a place in its own right, and other composers followed suit exploring yet further the timbre of this instrument, changing it from its perception of something ethereal and uplifting to being nearly brassy and brash, with a voice of its own.

Rapunzel

http://www.calendarlive.com/music/cl-ca-zappa29jan29,0,3589253.story?coll=cl-music-features

can, not, wait

Mimaroglu's record label Finnadar also re-released the 1950 EMS records first recordings as 'The Varese Record' -- I've also been playing those a lot -- the sound quality is definitely not as good as later recordings but it's got the spirit. The Finnadar release also includes the original 1954 versions of the three tape interludes of 'Déserts', straight off the reel -- it's interesting to hear the tapes without any room echo. You can hear bits of the 1950 recordings cut-up in the 1954 tape pieces -- he was sampling himself, which is incredibly cool.

(The Craft is given a mention earlier in the article.) (He also gives gd Webern.)

I just revived the most recent Zappa thread with a link to that article [via Rambler]. Really like Eotvos own 'wind sequences' and obv ensemble moderne is a totally a gd thing so yes to "can't wait".

My favorite version of 'Déserts' is still the original recording by Robert Craft. Remote, powerful, the transitions between sections are perfect & mysterious. Not on CD yet, you can still find copies of Columbia's double vinyl "The Varése Album" floating about though.

I just noticed that this has been reissued:

http://www.amazon.com/Varese-Album-Edgard/dp/B000RMJ5BG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201009238&sr=8-4

Worth grabbing?

oh god yes. that one is _the one_, it's the most modernist & cutting & life-affirming

the 2CD Chailly set of Complete Works is lush & beautiful & brings out the Romantic roots, you can hear the Debussy & Stravinsky influences more clearly on the early pieces (and even on some of the later pieces). but on the Craft set, Varese still sounds like the future

also recently released on CD for the first time were the 1950 first recordings which I mentioned above. even on CD they still sound like they were recorded in a shoebox but they're still good, and I need it for the three original tape-music sections of 'Déserts'

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51O6eN8gQkL._SS500_.jpg

I will get this (by and by).

I don't listen to him that often, but when I do it changes everything

http://www.zakros.com/mica/soundart/f02/varese2young.gif

Wow is all I can say to this...

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/06/edgar-var%C3%A8se-and-the-jazzmen-mp3s.html

Edgard Varèse conducts a workshop with jazzmen Art Farmer (trumpet), Hal McKusik (clarinet, alto sax), Teo Macero (tenor sax), Eddie Bert (trombone), Frank Rehak (trombone), Don Butterfield (tuba), Hall Overton (piano), Charlie Mingus (bass), Ed Shaughnessy (drums), probably John La Porta (alto sax)... We don't know who is on vibes...

It might be the first free jazz recording (totally unissued) of History of Music. Varèse might have influenced jazzmen or was he only aware of what was happening on the jazz scene? No matter of the answer, it's a bomb, as this music is 3 years earlier than Free Jazz by Ornette Coleman! We also know Charlie Parker wanted to study with Varèse in autumn 1954 but the composer flew to Europe to conduct Déserts. When he came back to New York in May 1955, Parker had already died. We also know that Varèse used to listen to John Coltrane at the Village.

Between March and August 1957, these Sunday jam-sessions were followed by arranger George Handy, journalist Robert Reisner, composers James Tenney, Earle Brown and John Cage, choreographer Merce Cunningham. The organizers were Earle Brown and Teo Macero who will become Miles Davis' producer among others. Varèse used certain extracts of the workshop for his Poème électronique.

The original of this tape is at Fondation Paul Sacher.

Oh wow Varèse is a guy I've always considered really austere and counter-jazz. Will be fun to hear this later.

y these are nice, the first 5-8 clips are basically everyone just sustaining their warming up sounds until it becomes a texture, but once they get that out of their system things start getting very strange

Varèse, James Tenney, Earle Brown, John Cage, Merce Cunningham, Teo Macero

NYC 1957 hats off

http://www.classical-composers.org/img/villa-lobos_varese_1926.jpgg

http://www.classical-composers.org/img/villa-lobos_varese_1926.jpg

Oh wow Varèse is a guy I've always considered really austere and counter-jazz.

Indeed, doesn't Alex Ross attribute some pretty racist comments to him in "The Rest Is Noise"?

dunno i don't think Ross is all that tbh

Neither do I, but I don't think he'd make it up. It was from 30's or something, so maybe the old boy just wised up.

Varèse was anti-semitic, claiming in 1928 when asked about jazz that it was not representative of America but instead was, "a negro product, exploited by the Jews. All of its composers here are Jews"

:-( ffs

Crikey, that was it! He wasn't long out of France, still had to shake off that Franceness and become a Merkin.

i guess by the 50s he's going to clubs to listen to Coltrane et al. but still, European anti-Semitism and culture buffs' happy disregard for European anti-Semitism as depressing as ever

dunno i don't think Ross is all that tbh

― dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 2 February 2012 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Reminds me of a John Carey-like approach. More journalistically inclined, but still...

Xenakis did a lot worse than saying anything when he staged Persepolis at the time of the Shah. Making art is a horrendous business.

http://kulturebite.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/edgard.jpg