Belle and Sebastian: CorD??

That said, I find most insults directed at them here very entertaining. Every band deserves to be splattered at least once in a while. And nothing's more annoying than insecure possessive fanboys & girls who can't take it, which B&S seem to have a lot of.

They really, really, really need to stop writing self-referential bullroar like "Chickfactor" and "Family Tree", but other than that for me they're tres classique.

[chzza extends a giant finger across three states, where it enters the building Ned works in and pokes him in the nose]

Just in case you missed the reference ;-)

It's occurred to me that making B&S cry wouldn't be all that hard. Probably saying "Hello," to them, then walking away and chuckling would do the trick.

Oh, and they are mostly very nice people. Which may or may not be important, but perhaps it's worth stating.

B&S Peel Session 2001: astonishing dud, so bad at times that it feels like an April Fool.

My problem with Isobel Campbell and Stevie Jackson songs is that neither of them is as talented at writing songs as Stuart Murdoch.

Don't like the music = fine (of course). All B&S songs are bedwetter's anthems = wrong.

In May 2000 B&S released the 45 'Legal Man'. As expected, it was something of a Breakthrough Hit - top 20 or so. There was some talk about selling out, other talk about lowering standards, more talk about how it was a shame that their biggest-selling 45 was so relatively poor.

In the subsequent 3+ years, B&S have released other 45s and eps - such as 'Jonathan David', 'I'm Waking Up To Us', and 'Step Into My Office Baby' (or was that not released? I don't know).

And it seems safe to assume that their fanbase has grown, not shrunk, in that period, even if one or two old-timers have left the fold.

So why have they not enjoyed any further Breakthrough Hits on the scale of 'Legal Man'? Their 45s seem to be about as successful now as they were in the days of 'Dog On Wheels'.

Surprisingly I also love a lot of the music on it.

I didn't know that it had sold well. Of course I don't mean that they should have multiple Breakthrough Hits - but that after the first BH they ought to have had other hits on a similar scale.

I think I cannot agree with Farrell that their fanbase has shrunk since 2000. I would guess that it has grown, even if it possibly more diffuse and less intense (?).

The fact or claim that B&S were past their peak in 2000 is not plainly relevant either - as I am assuming that 'commercial peak' might be very different from 'artistic peak, in a fan's opinion'.

There was less buzz around them with the release of the new album, I think, certainly in the mainstream media. They hadn't done anything particularly big or controversial, and their previous release was Storytelling, which was widely regarded as a bit of a disappointment.

A fan's opinion (as in fanatic, which B&S seem to attract in considerable numbers) is less than useless about chart position. Aggregate demi-fan/ordinary punter opinion, however, is exactly what we're measuring, and it has been in decline for a while (as William has just pointed out).

(from a Salon article on Elvis Costello: His most loyal fans will doughtily make a case for "Spike," or "Mighty Like a Rose," or "Brutal Youth." That is what one's most loyal fans are for)

(Also: my god that Avalanches mix of "I'm A Cuckoo" is sweet)

I still think Dom P's point is good. Especially as we are always told that you need lower sales to have a 45 hit nowadays.

I think N.'s view is needed here. I don't know quite why.

I still think letting the other band members have their own songs was a big mistake.

When isn't it?

true, it's just very glaring in the case of B&S because they made 2 classic albums that were 100% Stuart Murdoch, and the subsequent drop in quality is hard to deny.

When isn't it?

I like the Spiral Stairs songs

The Beatles

Deerhunter

Yo La Tengo

Those examples were never the product of one writer. Maybe Deerhunter? B&S was more like Fogerty letting the others at CCR.

I remember a review when Fold Your Hands came out that was like "You've got a guy with the voice of a nightingale in your band - why are you letting these pigeons squawk?" or something like that.

it was FISHYCLAP iirc

Also, Beyond the Sunrise's real title was The Clunker.

listen to what other people say cuz things are going wrong your own way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4de-RHHLCBA

in a town so small there is no escaping you

true story when i saw them in 2002 in atlanta i was given the mic to say that bit but realised I had never actually paid attention/made out the words so i just mumbled "town" something something "you"

that song is one of the best songs ever recorded.

seriously, when i think of belle and sebastian's first 3.5 albums the only thing i feel is gratitude, like what harold bloom describes feeling when contemplating the existence of shakespeare.

Just watched that Pitchfork doc, and it was both lovely and informative but it was also pretty much the most twee thing ever.

it would be a bit disappointing if it weren't

What, couldn't hear you, too busy skipping down the street blowing bubbles on the way to feed the ducks at the park.

now you're doing it right!

Should probably be taking a bicycle, imho. With some books in the basket to read in the shade after the ducks are fed.

don't forget the big cuddly lion

You mean Audrey Hepburn, my imaginary lion? She's there, playing hopscotch.

http://www.fabaudrey.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/BATscreen617.jpg
Twiddly-dum, twiddly-dee, feeding ducks at the park ...

God Help the Girl (the film) opens in Toronto tom'w... apparently it ran somewhere in the US in September, but not NYC.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2141751/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_ql_dt_2

well apparently it did come and go in one week here...

http://us.godhelpthegirl.com/

yeah, it had a short run in Austin, didn't get to see it

I saw it many months ago, but I was charmed. When I saw it, it felt a little long and rambly, but there were enough good musical numbers and fun moments that I enjoyed it as a whole. It often does feel like a Belle & Sebastian cover come to life.

I would never want to see God Help the Girl but people I know who have seen it - including personal friends of members of B&S - say it's terrible and that this guy's ongoing fetishisation of a certain kind of slight young girl is getting tedious. In that sense it probably does feel like a Belle & Sebastian cover come to life.

I like B&S, but a film version of one of their album covers does sound horrifying.

Haven't seen the film but I listened to the soundtrack and it made the Sunshine on Leith soundtrack seem edgy as fuck.

A number of problems with the film but overall I think it's pretty decent.

So, after being essentially lukewarm on Girls in Peacetime, I picked up the three recent EPs in piecemeal and am just now this evening getting around to them.

Four songs in and it definitely feels like a comfortably strong affair so far. We'll see.

In the the new print issue of Rolling Stone, there's a review of the new one paired with a thumbnail of the Girls In Peacetime... cover.

Ha. Oh well.

I like these new songs. Nothing new or all that exciting by any means, but some strong melodic ideas for sure.

a few of the new songs came up in my release radar, all sounded good

but basically what I'm always kind of hoping for, and what will never happen, is that they start making imitations of If You're Feeling Sinister

I went to see Rich Hall last night and he told an anecdote about the drummer from B&S getting left behind on tour at a Wal-Mart in Montana or somewhere in his pyjamas.

Was biggish news at the time, made the national press

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-40960413

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/aug/16/belle-and-sebastian-accidentally-leave-drummer-in-pyjamas-in-walmart

NME as well, but that is 50% adverts so I won't link it

Ha! Hall's - presumably invented - punchline was that their manager called someone at the WalMart and asked if there was a guy wandering around in his pyjamas and they replied 'You'll have to give us more information than that...'

is anybody planniung to go on this cruise in the mediterranean with them? a fun idea but pretty expensive (4 days starting from above 1000 quid onwards)...

Little bit of history up for auction:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332822766068?_trksid=p2471758.m4704

"Previously loved by...Stuart Murdoch"

https://i.imgur.com/4Yc30dm.jpg

14,100 quid. People are crazy and too rich at the same time!

I just watched the Hal Hartley movie Trust for the first time in ages (since “back in the day”), and noticed a few lines of dialogue that seem to be paraphrased in the lyrics of Tigermilk. Is that a known thing, or maybe just a coincidence? I don’t know a lot about B&S, but I know the main guy makes films and stuff; seems like he may have been into indie film in the early ’90s...

I really miss Adrienne Shelly

Could be. There’s another band that I always thought reminded me of Hal Hartley, My Favorite, although I never found any explicit connection. But I do find that Stuart Murdoch was a fan of theirs and asked them to open at least one Belle & Sebastian show.

I used to see her walking around downtown and when that terrible thing happened I moronically thought “she did look sad the last time I saw her.” Then soon after I realized when I saw Nathan Lane walking around the same neighborhood he could look really sad or animated on different days depending on whether he was on or off.

As to the other point again, I want to say that there would appear to be a natural affinity of a particular brand of far-flung artsy Francophilia between the various artists mentioned.

The Hartley thing is 'a known thing' in the sense that an ILXor or two has raised it in the past, at least. And...that's all I can contribute here. :)

Oh yeah, thanks, just found something here: Allusions to CULT FILMS in Rock