Laswell's Axiom Funk/Dub/Ambient — C/D?

He's forgiven for producing the Sonny Sharrock record, and what I heard of my roommate's copy of the Miles remix was pretty tight.

Oh yeah, the last Arcana record was ace! I haven't listened for years, but as I recall it was basically Tony Williams playing metal with Pharoah Sanders et al.

Ritual Beating System is really cool, too, with a bunch of the usual suspects collaborating with some Brazillian luminaries like Carlinhos Brown, plus the New York bucket buskers. Neat combo.

Last Exit is phenomenal, except for the studio album, Iron Path, which is unimaginative and overly restrained (sort of like most of Laswell's studio productions). The Miles thing is pretty cool; I like how he mixed whale songs into one of the tracks (I think it's #3).

I like his production job on Iggy's Instinct (best Iggy album of the 80s), but hate what he did with Motorhead's Orgasmatron.

So I guess I'm in the middle somewhere.

I didn't realize he had produced Orgasmatron! It totally makes sense.

But yeah, The Third Power is a really great record.

each of these comps has exactly one track that summarizes the whole:

axiom dub = "gun too hot"
altered beats = "invasion of the octopus people"
valis ii = "black loop", etc.

all the hakim bey quotes in the world can't save the comps. search that cover art, though. (and if you must buy one, buy valis ii)

YeaYea to the Bahia Black album! Material have a few albums I enjoy quite a bit (esp. "Hallucination Engine"), and I like the first two Divination albums on a different sorta level. But one of my favourite Laswell-associated albums is Aisha Kandisha's "Shabeesation".
I'm fairly sure that my world needs more Moroccan dub!!!

which material record has whitney houston on it?

i am the only person in the world who likes Axiom Ambient :-(

I used to really like Axiom Ambient, actually. Just like I used to really like so much of this stuff. As I look back on most of these records, it's just all too slushy — all textures and beats, cold, and w/ no real definition or purpose. All of it read better on paper than it actually was. And the guy definitely could have used an editor. Maybe I should pull some of it out again.

Any thoughts on the Divination stuff? Mick Harris's ambient work used to really impress me.

it seems laswell is better when working as an outside producer on other bands or other peoples works then when hes actualy composing/ playing himself ya

i dunno chaki. it often seems to me laswell chooses the right people to work with and then blows it...

I sold it back recently after realizing I hadn't listened to it for god knows how long. Fairly dull in retrospect.

Also, great story that Wayne Horvitz once told me about Laswell. Apparently, he used to be a total fucking slavedriver when it came to his interns. He would supposedly make them sleep on a cot in the studio if they wanted to work for him, even though he didn't pay them. So, one day, the guy asked if he could take a day off and spend some time with his mother for Mothers Day. So, he asked Laswell, if he ever celebrated Mother's Day with his mom.

Laswell apparently turned to him slowly and growled: "Fuck that shit."

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-115876-1211559668.jpeg

fuck the hate.
i love this album.
when i'm in the mood for axiom styled funk/jazz/world fusion, this is the album i always head to first.

doh.

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-115876-1211559668.jpeg

Revive -- as for some reason, I'm listening through all these 90s records again, deciding that I don't hate them and find them awfully listenable.

It's kind of hilarious, though -- when it comes to his ambient dub productions, not only do they sound interchangeable, they sound IDENTICAL. The guy clearly used the same six pieces of outboard gear set to the same settings to do all his dub effects with.

Some highlights and impressions:

Cypher 7: Decoder -- sort of T Dream as performed on a wavetable synthesizer. Of note: no dub bass stuff.

Nicky Skopelitis: Next to Nothing -- a quasi blues-Arabic record w/ Ginger Baker doing his PiL whomp in the background (this is on Venture Virgin).

Divination: Ambient Dub Volume 2: Dead Slow -- some decent Wobble basslines and one really good Mick Harris ambient track, even though it's mostly wind sound effects run through harmonizers.

Pete Namlook/Bill Laswell: Psychonavigation -- Laswell's usual dub bass and beats shit but with warm, Moby-ish keyboard pads playing melancholy chord progressions on top.

Axiom Dub: Mysteries of Creation -- More like real dub I suppose, but with a completely ace Jah Wobble/Jaki Liebezeit track.

So, yeah: it's still soup. But it can be tasty from time to time.

Nicky Skopelitis: Next to Nothing -- a quasi blues-Arabic record w/ Ginger Baker doing his PiL whomp in the background (this is on Venture Virgin).

for a more intense (and varied) album you need to track down nickys followup album :

http://s.dsimg.com/image/R-115876-1211559668.jpeg

this is the one i go back to more than any of the others (though i'll admit, its not an ambient release).

of laswells ambient stuff, when in that mood, it has to be the mile davis remix album.

Some of his dub work is remarkable, for example Automaton's Dub Terror Exhaust still sounds huge. The "Western Lands" trilogy from 1989 (Material's Seven Souls, Ginger Baker's Middle Passage, and Nicky SkopelitisNext To Nothing) work well (and even better together). Some of my favorite recordings of world traditional music have his production signature in the mix and ambiance: Gnawa Night Masters, Talip Ozkan's The Dark Fire, Master Musicians of Jajouka's Apocalypse Across the Sky, Kodo's Ibuki, Bachir Attar's The Next Dream, SamulNori's Record Of Changes.

But I really dislike his own bass playing, remarkably metronomic and unsupple for someone so steeped in dub and funk. Somewhere around 1991 he succumbed to some Pete Namlook workaholic curse that spurned editing ideas and ultimately exhausted me as a consumer. Around 1995 I gave up and turned by attention elsewhere.

The rule of thumb I gleaned by that time is to avoid releases featuring his playing, improvisation-oriented things, and kitchen-sink ensembles. I'm sure there's a lot of gems I've thus missed, but I'm content with just auditioning the Moroccan bands he produces every few years.

The "Western Lands" trilogy from 1989 (Material's Seven Souls, Ginger Baker's Middle Passage, and Nicky SkopelitisNext To Nothing) work well (and even better together).

I would also add Skopelitis' Ekstasis which I just dug around for and pulled out. In some ways, it's kind of a fusion of all three of those records. While I like the songs w/ Ziggy Modeliste of the Meters, the tracks with Liebezeit and Wobble are probably the best example of Laswell's Ethnological Forgery Series-esque fusion of world music and western sensibilities.

But I really dislike his own bass playing, remarkably metronomic and unsupple for someone so steeped in dub and funk.

For me, I've usually found Laswell's most direct musical contributions--be it bass playing, the ambient pieces he wrote himself or the two or three phase and delay settings on his effects processors he always seemed to use when mixing--to be the least interesting parts of his catalog. Here again, Ekstasis manages to escape most of those problems, as Laswell's bass playing is pretty spare and the production generally feels secondary to the playing. That may be more Skopelitis, though, as he co-produced.

Also, I also just listened to the first disc of Axiom Ambient again -- probably for the first time in nearly 15 years. Upon reflection, it definitely suffers from virtually all the problems I mentioned in the previous post -- including when the loping dub rhythm sections he fell in love with around that time would enter and how they would be processed. That said, there is something to be said for trying to find a place where Naima-esque Pharaoh Sanders and Sonny Sharrock melodies can sit alongside Eddie Hazel catharsis.

It makes you think that the mainstreaming of the Axiom axiom--"Nothing Is True, Everything Is Permitted" has been Laswell's real legacy -- even if so much of his own work doesn't really hold up to repeated listening in the end.

Which is originally attributed to Hassan-i Sabbah, iirc.

Also, listening to "Under Black Skies" off Ginger Baker's Middle Passage at full volume brings back virtually all the memories of why I loved this stuff as much as I did 15 years ago. Baker himself sounds enormous and joyful on this record -- Wobble's bass is very hard and the melodies are really uplifting. And the African instrumentation feels completely natural and in no way forced or overly exotic.

I think I am cursed to always check out these records when I come across an artist in another context who worked with him. This week it is Pfunk and Axiom Funk.

It's possible the best thing he ever recorded is the remake of Cosmic Slop with Gary Shider, Mudbone Cooper, Bootsy, Michael Hampton and Sly & Robbie.

great article : http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/bill-laswell-introduction

however, there is one thing here, (and in every other article i have read in the last few days), and that's the complete freedom that chris blackwell handed over to laswell.
what's the connection ?
was axiom a massive tax write off, or did chris have a genuine love for the end product ?
or, did laswell make chris a shedload of money on a particular project and so felt honoured to pay back the favour ?
i mean, i cannot believe that axiom was a profit making operation given the costs per album (studio costs, stella cast list, artwork, high profile promotion vs minimal sales), and not only that, but when chris sold island and set up palm pictures, he took laswell with him !?
i mean, i am glad, as when in a certain place, i love laswells production mix of ambient/funk/hip hop/world groove thing, but damn, laswell got lucky when he hooked up with chris blackwell.

oh, and yes, the axiom/laswell version of 'cosmic slop' is indeed possibly the best thing he ever recorded.

interesting question for which I have no answer

not sure anyone does other than bill or chris.
but this is definitely something that would never happen now.
even the few artist based vanity labels these days have to be able to prove their value.
whereas from what i have read, there were no such demands on laswell/axiom.

man I can't even think of who has a vanity label now...?

hip hop : various big sellers have one.
mumford and sons : communion.
lily allen : in the name of

etc.

they still exist, but doubt they get the same freedom (financial/creative) that laswell had.

Will def. read this. And yes, that is an interesting topic.

Only other thing I can imagine is that Laswell may have somehow appealed to the true believer in Chris Blackwell. After all, he's not just a record executive – he's the (white) guy responsible for bringing reggae into the pop culture mainstream. And so I wonder if Laswell's "borderless music" vision, combined with his success as a mainstream producer who could play with industry heavies, gave Blackwell the confidence or assurance that Axiom could help him bolster his own legacy as a visionary. I mean, there had to be something alluring to a guy like Blackwell about financing this label that gave creme de la creme rock and jazz guys like Ginger Baker, Herbie Hancock and Bootsy Collins venturing outside of their comfort zones to play with Brazilian bucket bands, the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and various avant garde luminaries etc. All underpinned by dub and guys like Sly and Robbie who he helped break.

exactly.

that shit cannot have been cheap.

bad usage of the word 'shit' there, as i happen to love this stuff.

also, from the article this worries me :

"Laswell is also close to a deal to reacquire the rights to the Axiom catalog"

ahhhhh.

a whole new set of remastered editions via some minor label that's only available via some boutique shop in NYC.

I went to a Palm Pictures party one time at their Manhattan offices. Laswell and Blackwell were there, super chummy with each other. The staff was all really young and nerdy. The spread was amaaaazing. Music was on really low. We got drunk and split.

That said I love - absolutely love - so much Axiom stuff, dated as some elements have become: Hallucination Engine, that Pharaoh Saunders Gnawa album, Horse & Trees...

*Horses

Laswell and Blackwell were there, super chummy with each other.

i suspect this is the core of the reason that laswell got away with so much, as i genuinely believe that his axiom releases rarely broke even.

ta for the insight.
ohh, to be a fly on the wall at such a gathering.

absolutely love - so much Axiom stuff, dated as some elements have become: Hallucination Engine, that Pharaoh Saunders Gnawa album, Horse & Trees

listen again.

i only know the HE/pharoah saunders releases of that list, but i would suggest that time is beginning to serve them well
i.e. the depth in the sonics of axiom vs the current love for compressed to excess chaos.

I interviewed Laswell in 2011. We talked about a lot of different records, and a little about how he gets funding for projects.

fantastic !

totally going to soak that up tomorrow evening with a nice glass of wine.

ta for the nudge.

(fingers x'd that the remastered edition of herbie hancocks sound-system that i ordered turns up today/tomorrow as i've not heard that in nearly 30 years)

spotted a new album in the racks recently that cited laswell as part of the crew, so became interested.

so did the usual and became even more interested.

that said, there is a massive disconnect that totally jarred with the rest of the mentioned line up that i just cannot figure out.

http://www.rarenoiserecords.com/gaudi

and i love the band, but still, its a very unusual namedrop.

I have that here but haven't listened to it yet.

oooh.
you tease.

and more to the point : is the SSS namedrop of relevance ?

Shocked to see this. https://www.gofundme.com/help-save-orange-music-studio

shit.
every year i have a few weeks of intense axiom love.
the rest of the year i have no interest, but for those few weeks, damn ...
ta for the pointer, i had no idea.

there are times i really wish Bill Laswell would do an "Axiom Dubstep" album, or has he, and I just don't know about it ?

Hard to imagine he hasn’t.

exactly my point.
get the old Axiom crew together, and sort it out.
the musicianship he has access to would make such an album bloody brilliant.

I have no idea what Laswell has been up to since those Miles Davis remixes. and that was what, 20 years ago? I should Google him.

Huh, apparently he released a collaboration with the drummer from red hot chili peppers and the guy who is currently Stephen Colbert's musical director? among other guests? weird.

Yeah, that's a pretty good album, too.

https://modtechnologies.bandcamp.com/album/the-process

Great recent piece here with Laswell discussing the industry and telling lots of juicy stories:

https://www.innerviews.org/inner/bill-laswell4

wow, he sure brings the juice!

lol when i interviewed him in 1986 for the wire he told some stories mildly against other musicians and then was cross they got into print

What a great interview!

that was a cracking read.
ta for the pointer.

lol when i interviewed him in 1986 for the wire he told some stories mildly against other musicians and then was cross they got into print

i'll have to look it up -- his bing cross abt it has stuck with me more clearly than the story or stories

for all the money he was paid for his involvement with all the big albums, it sounds that running Greenpoint cleaned him out.

Great read, thanks for sharing. Love him or hate him I have to admire the fact that he has traveled the globe making music for 40 years. What a feat.

for all the money he was paid for his involvement with all the big albums, it sounds that running Greenpoint cleaned him out.

He also has at least one divorce in his past - no way of knowing how expensive that was/is (there's a kid involved too).

re: the interview, I kind of take issue with continued "improvements" to album artwork, but I guess as long as whatever people connected with initially isn't fundamentally altered or made purposely unavailable, then sure, why not twiddle with it whenever you feel like?

And even though he's sort of blase about physical media at this point, I sure wish Ask The Ages would get a vinyl release someday.

I thought it was released on vinyl when the recent CD remaster came out in 2015, but I guess not.

This may have been my favorite part of that interview:

There’s a lot of corruption and stealing involved with those labels. It’s very complicated. I grew up with the real music business criminals—some of the worst criminals imaginable. All big music industry guys I’ve worked with since the ‘80s. But those guys also made this business. It wouldn’t be what it is today without them. Did they steal? Definitely. Did I steal? For sure. But we made things happen.

Explain what you mean when you say you stole.

I took the money as I went. I helped a lot of people. I’ve disappointed some people, definitely. I took from the corporations and gave the money to other people, Robin Hood-style. I’m still doing it. But there are fewer corporations to take from. Some of the criminals in the business are the ones to get things done. You could make a list of the 20 biggest music industry criminals and look at it and realize they built the whole system we’re dealing with. I’m talking about real music. Not entertainment. They made some very important music happen.

Some people feel the old label system had no value. Clearly you feel otherwise.

In retrospect, they were so stupid that I could actually get a lot of money from them. I would take that money, take my time and make great work. On a more selfish and comedic level, I was able to have fun. We did crazy shit in the ‘80s. I’d say “Well, we’re going to Japan. I need to bring some people.” The label would say “What do you mean some people?” I’d say “Oh, you know, I need 10 people. And we need first-class tickets for everyone.” It was nuts, but it was fun and at the end of the day we delivered.

I remember when Chris Blackwell sold Island to Polygram at the end of the ‘80s for more than $300 million. I went to visit Chris the next day at his house in Central Park. I had no idea what I was going to say. I was making it up in the cab on the way. I had been up all night with Peter Brötzmann, Cecil Taylor and Nick Nolte in an after-hours bar. We were there until noon. I was completely wasted, but I arrived at Chris’ place and said “I have this idea. I want to do this label.” That label was Axiom. He just got all that money and he made Axiom happen in 1989. None of it would have happened without him. Once I got the money, I was dead serious about the label. We did great work. But its beginnings were pretty abstract and it was related to that old system.

One thing left unsaid here is that Laswell’s value to the industry was predicated on his ability to get records done more or less on budget and on time. I think it’s easy to get distracted by his aesthetics and theories – but like few other producers, Laswell was a guy exec-types could depend on to deliver a product with a minimum of fuss for names like Jagger, Iggy, Lydon. Names that had a high hit potential but normally involved a *lot* of fuss.

On the flip side, Laswell's value to artists was his clear talent for securing big deals with the major labels and assembling an all-star supporting cast of Senagalese percussionists, funk, reggae and jazz legends that played to their own egos and sense of self worth. Obviously Laswell's approach was more successful artistically with some acts than others -- there are a lot of duds in his catalogue. But from a business standpoint, it was a hit 100% of the time — and that he was able to “steal” money from record companies to fund wild dream projects and vanity labels was a clear byproduct of his ability to effectively navigate both sides from one project to the next (and probably not much more).

I used to be really bugged by Laswell's insistence that he was so important to the birth of hip-hop, but I've softened to that a bit these days. I def. got completely lost once Axiom came around and there seemed to be dozens upon dozens of albums with more or less the same people under different names and my pocketbook couldn't keep up. But I'll always love the Material albums, Golden Palominos, and a lot of his production work.

I have a whole record called Technovoodu: Astral Black Simulations that combines a lot of Herbie Hancock’s electronic stuff that I did for Sony that didn’t officially come out, either. It will eventually. Sony paid a lot of money for that and then nobody knew what to do with it.

this sounds like what he did with miles davis/santana/marley, a long mix all blended together with the usual Laswell styled tweaks.
bet its bloody fantastic.

Nearly twenty (gah) years later, I continue to come back to this guy with all sorts of complicated feelings. On one hand, it's just SO MUCH MUSIC it's just impossible to consume. On the other, though, it's kind of hard to ignore, and there are a lot of really interesting records in here -- and as much as the endless cultural mashups are exhausting and perhaps tossed off, there is def. something bold and compelling about them.

For instance, while Axiom Ambient: Lost in the Translation is a slog in some ways, it also has one track ("Peace") which features the last recordings of Eddie Hazel and Sonny Sharrock that is kind of like "Maggot Brain Goes to Skronk Heaven" ... then there's the killer Orb remix of "Mantra" ... the Eastern strings from the Material cover of "Cosmic Slop" detached from gravity ... there's some pipes and other shit from the Master Musicians from Jajouka ... and ends on a positively gorgeous ambient piece that barely moves for eight minutes from Tetsu Inoue (RIP? probably).

Is it "slushy"? Yeah. Do some (many?) of these things not belong together? Absolutely. But like a lot of what Laswell did, there are moments he stumbles onto that are wild and unprecedented -- and with the era of the lavish studio having gone the way of the dodo, probably lost to time at this point.

Who the fuck else had at this disposal P-funk, Moroccan musicians, Miles Davis Quintet guys, Dark Magus dudes like Pete Cosey, PiL guys, bucket drummers, Brazilian songwriters, Harmolodics protégés like Blood Ulmer and Shannon Jackson, a shit ton of hip hop legends like the Jungle Brothers, reggae legends like Sly and Robbie, fusion legends like Zakir Hussein, classic rock legends like Ginger Baker, free jazz legends like Brotzmann and Sharrock, and a million other people? Nobody. Maybe they shouldn't have all ended up in a room together. But they did. And this is that.

I remain torn.

When he's good he can be very good imo, but yeah there's just so damn much of it that I long ago decided that collecting any more than what I already have is a fool's errand.

Which makes him kind of ideal for streaming, truth be told. I have most of what I would want on CD but the man has an impressive Bandcamp page:

https://billlaswell.bandcamp.com