Hi-Fis (boring yes, but important)

[look at me sneak this on to the recent answers page, aren't I cheeky?]

Try Richer sounds they're usually fairly reasonable.

I know this sounds poncey but if you're already committed spending the shekels, buy it in pieces so it lasts. First: amp. Then: everything else.

tip on the minidisc: i had one b4 it was stolen and the compression is literally worse than mp3. unless you have a need for live recording, which is minidisc's ace in the hole, and a truly awesome feature, forgo it.

in pieces yes, separates a must

Getting 5 components including a decent turntable for under 500 pounds is not trivial. Richer Sounds is fine and cheap for most things but they don't do good turntables, and the cheap DJ market players that they do sell are much lower quality that than entry level home ones. Also, their employees can occasionally verge on the Dixon-esque so going forearmed with a bit of research is a good idea.

turntable - try Ebay (in fact this can apply any part). Should be able to get a nice 70s/early 80s Dual, Pioneer, Technics etc for about 30 quid, plus 10 quid postage. alternatively new Eastern European makes like Pro-Ject, Rega etc do nice hi-fi models starting at around a hundred, but these mainly aimed at ust listening to albums - you have to remove the platter to adjust the speed to 45.

between me and some friends, we've had success at getting tuners, cassette decks, amplifiers, speakers from Ebay, all in very good condition, and all good quality items (e.g. 70s Sony, Arcam etc).

Turntables: second-hand is a good bet, even scouring junk/charity shops (saw a JVC direct-drive with Grado cart in my local Evergreen Trust for a tenner t'other week; not to mention a pair of Kef Calistas [mid-70s high-end speakers] for 25). If you must have new, I can't think much beyond the Pro-Ject Debut, which retails for around 100 quid.

Richer Sounds: to come in under budget without spending weeks scouring Loot/second-hand stores trying to piece together the system, this should be a first port of call. The advice earlier in the thread to have some idea what you want before going in should be heeded - RS staff are notoriously uninformed, and will always try to sell you brands that RS now owns (Cambridge Audio, Ariston, Sherwood, possibly Eltax). Sony/Technics/Marantz/NAD all within your range and all pretty decent, I think (amp/twin cassette deck). The idea of the 'permanently neutral' amp - i.e. no bass, no treble adjustment - doesn't kick in until you spend three or four times your budget (and it's a relatively recent 'innovation' - older high-end gear always provided some form of EQ). Obviously get an amp with a phono stage, so you can use yr turntable with it.

MD: the suggestion that the compression is worse than MP3 (at which rate?) is rather surprising - I've always found the more recent incarnations of ATRAC near-transparent. A trip to Tottenham Court Road might be worth a try here - you probably won't find shiny new Sony/Sharp/Panasonic/Aiwa gadgetry cheaper anywhere else. Old style portable pre-LP mode* recorders should be available for under 100 quid now. (* - LP mode: allows 148 [LP2] or 296 [LP4] minutes to be recorded on single 74min disc, with reduced sound quality, obviously. LP-capable portables are in the 180-230 quid range).

Good luck.

Oooh, thank you all very much. I'm not too fussed about the minidisc player, I'd only want one if a system had all that I wanted and just happened to have one as well, I was only thinking of having it to copy stuff for friends but none of them have minidisc players so it's not important. Richer Sounds have been thoroughly investigated by me, so can anyone recommend anywhere else on the interweb?

Check Audiogon for used stuff.

Michael J - I'm sure it's down to me fucking up the levels. But that somehow never happens with tape.

Tracer: fair enough. 'Course with tape you can crank the levels a bit because tape compression when slightly overloaded is quite nice, but you can't exceed 0dBFS *at all* with digital media 'cause it sounds 'orrible. Hence the tendency to err on the side of caution (with analogue-domain recording) and end up with something quiet not using all the available resolution.

Most of my (home) MD recording is done via coax link from CD, so no record-level setting to worry about at all (the level on the CD is inherited).

Minidisk uses the SAME compression algorithms as MP3. They're ok but a bit overated. Good for mixing up mix disks for mates providing they have Minidisk as well. They are however ace for sampling in my experience. Cheap kit, try Trade IT newspaper, loads in there. Check out Dixons for some surprise bargins. I picked up my Marantz CD which is a few years old for 60 sheets at a Dixons in Newport because it was used for the instore tannoy system Secret is seperates. If they fuck up you can get them fixed no matter what. Midi or mini systems are put together by fools and made out of sand. They will break within 2 to 3 years guranteed. You will probably spend the most on a decent turntable.

Tom: are you sure about that? I thought the various layers of MPEG and other perceptual encoders like PASC and ATRAC were all developed separately with different methodologies. I don't know enough about the subject to speculate on why MPEG I [Layer 3] has taken such a hold, but I know Sony/Sharp kept tweaking the critical band sizes and masking models in ATRAC to improve it. Neither is inherently superior to the other, I guess it's all down to implementation.