Taking Sides: Sparks vs. Sham 69

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did you know?
Sham 69 started out as a Bay City Rollers tribute band...

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Were Sparks smarter? OF COURSE!, but I'll take Sham 69's slackjawed sloganeering over the Mael brothers' smarmy nyuck nyuck rock any damn day of the week.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Just to get the ball rolling I shall repeat:

"All other considerations (e.g. the catastophic and irrepairable damage they did to the UK punk scene!) aside, the first 2 or 3 Sham singles were OK - but they were only ever one trick ponies musically, and it wasn't even a particularly clever trick at that. Jimmy Pursey's subsequent periodic attempts to reinvent himself / Sham 69 have all been as laughably dreadful as his lyrics have always been.

Sparks on the other hand have written hundreds of clever, funny songs in innumerable different styles and successfully reinvented themselves repeatedly.

Give me "Amateur Hour" or "Looks Looks Looks" or "This Town Ain't Big Enough For Both Of Us" or "Tips For Teens" or "I Predict" or "Cool Places" or "Never Turn Your Back On Mother Earth" or "The Number One Song In Heaven" or "Beat The Clock" or "Tryouts For The Human Race" or "Wonder Girl" raather than that gurning imbecile Pursey bellowing some pile of bollocks about how going down the pub, or inisisting that coming from Hersham somehow makes him a Cockney, any day!"

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What Stewart said.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

What's wrong with going down the pub? :(

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't seem like your preferred soundtrack, Tico.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I was on a pop quiz TV show "Pop Quest", in 1975, Sparks were the special guests. Nice folks...

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"WE'RE DA PEOPLE YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW -- WE COME FROM PLACES YOU DON'T WANNA GO!"

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"What's wrong with going down the pub?"

Absolutely nothing, as long as you don't bring armies of fuck-witted skinheads with you who then they proceed to smash the bar up so that no-one can get a pint then start kicking crap out of all the regulars.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned we played "Hurry Up Harry" at the wedding disco-FAP!! I think it was when you were boggling over that Vice spread though.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah! I was about to say, I surely would have remembered that cataclysmic event but an even grander one intervened.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, but Sparks just aren't as fun. Funnyy, yes, but not nearly as much fun to crank from one's speakers.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"WE'RE DA PEOPLE YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW -- WE COME FROM PLACES YOU DON'T WANNA GO!"

Here is a large part of my problem with Sham 69 in a nutshell:

a) they didn't come from ".... places you don't wanna go" at all - they came from the leafy Surrey suburbs of Hersham - they just pretended they came from ".... places you don't wanna go" to try to make themselves look hard and dangerous.

b) as part of their desperate bid to make themselves look hard and dangerous, they started to mix with some people who were really hard and dangerous; and proceeded to bring those people into the punk scene, where (as anyone with a double-figure IQ would have predicted) they proceeded to turn that scene into somewhere that the rest of us didn't want to go!

c) they (Sham 69) then had the temerity to whine with self pity and ask for sympathy because the idiots they had invited into the scene were making it impossible for them to play anywhere. Boo hoo fuckin' hoo - my sympathy continues to know no start.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Everyone is innocent"

dave q, Monday, 24 November 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but their music is still more fun than Sparks'. That's my point.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if this will work....

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/refreshmap.adp?z=5&rand=4545

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

It didn't.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't want to go to Hersham.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

No. Bugger.

I was trying to illustrate (for the benefit of non-Limeys) the sheer nonsense of claiming to be a Cockney when you're from fuckin' Walton On Thames.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Neither do I want to meet Sham 69, so he was right on both counts.

I would like to know who they "they" were who called James and the lads 'the cockney cowboys'.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Hersham's only a town or two away from Weybridge (where my wife is from), which is a very nice little town indeed....not at all brewing with shorn-scalped hooligans with Doc Martens and bulldog tatoos.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"Yeah, but their music is still more fun than Sparks'. That's my point."

But it's just not! It was vaguely funny for about a handful of songs with a total duration of about 20 minutes (certainly not long enough to make a listenable album) some time in 1978.

Sparks' music on the other hand is actually substantial enough to bear both repeated listening and detailed analysis.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Mmmmmm detailed analysis.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hersham's only a town or two away from Weybridge (where my wife is from), which is a very nice little town indeed....not at all brewing with shorn-scalped hooligans with Doc Martens and bulldog tatoos."

Not only that but (perhaps more importantly) it's 25 miles outside London and not even in the right direction for them to be bleedin' Cockneys.

"I would like to know who they "they" were who called James and the lads 'the cockney cowboys'."

I don't know who they were, but I think we can rule out anyone with even a rudimantary grasp of geography.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Sparks' music on the other hand is actually substantial enough to bear both repeated listening and detailed analysis.

....if you enjoy yawning, maybe.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, it would certainly be a bit taxing for the teeny tiny brain of the average Sham fan, yes.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

David Bowie wasn't from Mars either! But then Mars isn't sacred ground

dave q, Monday, 24 November 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't get me wrong! I'll be the first to admit that Sham 69 were utterly RIDICULOUS, but who cares? I'd much rather hear "Borstal Breakout" or "If the Kids Are United" or "Angels wiff Durty Faysez" or "I Don't Wanna" or "What Have We Got" or any of those stomping moron anthems than fuckin' "I Predict" or "Cool Places" or whatever every time.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"David Bowie wasn't from Mars either! But then Mars isn't sacred ground"

Also (perhaps more by luck than judgment) Bowie didn't actually trigger a martian invasion that led to the destruction of our entire planet.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i feel bad for even entering into this, but i have to cast my vote for sparks. i'm a bit confused as to how this is even a contest, though- it's like "taking sides: doing something really fun vs. being forced to eat dogshit."

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

well nobody held a gun to my head!

divine, Monday, 24 November 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

no, nor to mine. that's cleared up, then.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, maybe you could refer to a Sparks song that's not on the Profile collection?

Sparks are a pop group - I don't see how being "clever" negates the appeal. You'd think people were talking about math rock or something. Maybe by "detailed analysis" Stewart means "more than the same three chords"?

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a bit confused as to how this is even a contest,....

It wasn't my idea. One of the usual cheese-monkeys first postulated the contrast on my comparitively highly respectable Taking Sides: Kate Bush vs. Siouxsie Sioux. I agree that Sparks and Sham 69 are....WAIT FOR IT...apples & oranges, but if I had to choose, I'd grab a copy of Hersham Boys and use a copy of Angst in My Pants as a fuckin' coaster.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

But Sparks' early albums ROCK!

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn straight they do. Amazingly so I might add.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Kerry, it ain't like I said you can't listen to them anymore. Go wild. Have yourself a little Sparks party. I was just expressing my opinion.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 24 November 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)


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