As a bit of background: he’s an old amateur musician (well, OK, he’s a bass player, but he’s a fucking good bass player!) and very decidedly an old rockist. His main musical preferences are for Classic / Heavy Rock, Metal, Prog. and Indie – in fact, pretty much anything with lots and lots of guitars (although in the last couple of years he has been getting increasingly into Jazz too). He also has a particular affinity for Cheeky-Cockney-Chappy / Music-Hall stuff e.g. Kinks, Small Faces, Ian Dury, Blur c. Modern Life Is Rubbish / Park Life and an (I think) unfortunate tendency to be overly-impressed by self-indulgent displays of musicianly dexterity a la John McLaughlin, Jaco Pastorius, John Patitucci, Frank Zappa, etc..
Talking to him about music over the weekend he was moaning (as is his wont) about what he perceives as a lack of musicianship, inventiveness and innovation in current music and that he’s “heard it all before”. When I mentioned Dance and Hip-Hop as areas where he might consider looking for these missing qualities, he was immediately dismissive and full of the usual prejudices.
I can’t say I was entirely surprised - when I first met him 12 years ago, I had to challenge similar prejudices regarding Punk (in return for which he was largely instrumental in helping me to remove the Punk-Rock blinkers that I’d been wearing for the preceding 14 years!) and now, with your help, I’d like to have a crack at helping him get over his aversions to Dance and Hip-Hop.
He’s not entirely ignorant of either genre – I know (because I was with him) that he’s seen and enjoyed Arrested Development (who were OK because they played “real instruments”); Bjork (who he probably wouldn’t recognise as being “Dance” because he was aware of her musical past / background); New Order (see Bjork); The Prodigy (who he quite liked because of all the guitar!); Spearhead (see Arrested Development); Roni Size (see Arrested Development)…. He also quite liked the Unkle CD I burned for him a while back (the one that had Richard Ashcroft, Damon Gough and Thom Yorke singing on it) and he actually owns Maxinquaye. On the other hand, he very clearly didn’t think much of De La Soul when we saw them at Reading a few years back (although I would have to say that I don’t think a mid-afternoon slot on the main stage was the best place to appreciate them anyway, ‘cos I wasn’t too impressed myself!) and he wasn’t too keen on The Beastie Boys, The Chemical Brothers or Public Enemy either IIRC
Are you staring to spot a pattern emerging yet?
I’m hardly deeply steeped in either genre myself (as will doubtless be clear from the entirely canonical nature of all my suggestions) but I would still like to burn Nick a little pile of CD’s for his birthday next year which might help to remove a few scales from his eyes.
I’m also secretly hoping that by asking you guys for suggestions that might be suitable for him I may get pointed in the direction of a few things that I haven’t tried yet and might enjoy myself!
Anyway, my far-too-short-list of titles that simply aren’t open to any sort of debate, so please don’t bother, currently consists of:
A Tribe Called Quest - AnthologyDJ Shadow - EndtroducingThe Streets – Original Pirate Material
The other possibilities so far on my already-far-too-long-list include:
Air – Moon SafariAphex Twin – Selected Ambient Works 85-92Basement Jaxx – RemedyBlack Eyed Peas – ElephunkCommon – Like Water For ChocolateDisposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy – Hypocrisy Is The Greatest LuxuryGang Starr – Full ClipGuru – Jazzmatazz Vol. 1Leftfield – LeftismMassive Attack – Blue LinesMoby - PlayThe Orb – U.F. OffOrbital – 2 or Work 1989 - 2002OutKast – Speakerboxxx / The Love Below (I’m almost tempted to just do The Love Below because I can almost guarantee he’ll prefer that one!) or maybe Big Boi And Dre Present….)Portishead - DummyThe Roots – Things Fall ApartUnderworld – Dubnobasswithmyheadman
So…. what do you think of those and what others would you suggest?
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)
Orbital - In Sides808 State - Don Solaris (features much choppy guitar and guest vocals from Soul Coughing's Doughty, James Dean Bradfield and Louise Rhodes of Lamb)Coldcut - Let Us PlayDavid Holmes - Let's Get KilledPrimal Scream - Screamadelica, XtrmntrThe Avalanches - Since I Left YouFree Association2 Many DJs
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)
Handsome Boy Modelling School - So How's Your GirlAdam F - ColoursAdam F presents - KaosDaft Punk - HomeworkLo Fidelity All Stars - How To Operate With A Blown Mind
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)
I'm pretty sure Nick's got or is at least familiar with both those Primal Scream titles (they'd fall safely on the "ROCK" side of any definition as far as Nick's concerned). I can't believe I didn't think of The Avalanches or Daft Punk myself (I'm sure I would have done eventually!). I was a bit disappointed with Free Association after seeing them "live" on TV. I've been meaning to get something by Coldcut and 808 State for a while myself so this could be my excuse. The others I'm not familiar with - tell me more!
Tico the answer to your question is that he rather enjoys a nice glass of red wine.... swiftly followed by the remainder of the bottle and another 2 or 3 similar bottles.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)
i was thinking about the Coldcut album this morning and i still like it - only half of it is really danceable and there is a LOT of jazzy noodling and reverential sampling - somehow it managed to be both dated and ahead of it's time all at once. i'd also recommend their Journeys By Dj mix for your friend - everyone should hear that at least once - I will defend it to the end but others here are far less enamoured with the work of Moore and Black alas.
808 State - if your friend digs Kraftwerk then check out '90' - anything before that is too monotonous and 'acidic' probably. 'Ex:El' features Bjork and Bernard SUmner so he may like that, it's 12 years old now but definitely a landmark release in my opinion. their last album 'Outpost Transmission' has some good collaborations with Simian and Elbow but quite a few bad squarepushing jazz tangents too, oh well.
'In Sides' is many peoples' fave Orbital album. the David Holmes album is basically a pretty reverential New York odyssey (tripping on acid as he did whilst recording much of it) with lots of great dialogue skits and gorgeous strings, twangs, old funk breaks and dub leanings, i played it to death i think. the Lo-Fis album is Mark E Smith wearing rollerskates and eating a kebab - nuff said.
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)
― mentalist (mentalist), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)
I think a far more direct route to get Nick listening to Afrika Bambaata would be via his Time Zone collaboration with John Lydon - "World Destruction".
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)
OrbitalLeftfieldThe Orb
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)
"The Time Is Now" by Moloko to thread :-)
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)
Really 'though, I don't think Nick's really stupid or ignorant enough to actually believe any argument as flimsy as the "real instruments" one (unless his mental faculties really are degenerating with old age) and his use of it probably suggests that he's clutching at straws to try to justify himself being an old stick in the mud, rather than anything else.
Trust me, I had to deal with all the comparable arguments from him about Punks "not being proper musicians / able to play their instruments properly" 10-12 years ago - just before he gave in and grudgingly admitted that maybe some of those Buzzcocks, Clash, Cure, Damned, Fall, Joy Division, Magazine, Pere Ubu, PiL, Ramones, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Slits, Television, Wire and XTC albums I'd taped for him over the previous few weeks were staring too grow on him and weren't too bad once you got used to them.... considering....
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)
So, he's "heard it all before" has he? Yes, in a way he has but music is 100% self-referential. Everything feeds and mutates upon itself. As it stands... pop has eaten itself, whole. Everything's cyclical in most forms and there's a dumbing down in most genres of music, including his beloved punk, high-brow jazz wank, etc.
Tell me, does he have an affinity for reggae? As punk was interwoven with punk circa 1976? Look! I go through the "today's music is shite" phase on a daily basis working in a mainstream CD store (endless cover version chart pap, etc ,etc), but... there's pockets of ingenuity in many fantastic shapes and forms: it's a continuum out there and your friend has either put the shutters up long ago or is unwilling to participate in digging things out for himself! That's laziness in my opinion.
Many eons ago I too totally dismissed many forms of "black" music as being "inferior" to what I was listening too @ that time (ie: The Smiths/Cure/Jam/twee UK pop/Jesus & Mary Chain, etc al). I discovered rap (circa mid-80s) and it springboarded from there! The process of re-invention took hold: rap-funk-soul-jazz-electro-house-electronic-dub-reggae-disco-latin.. hell, I could go on and on....
Basically... the world is his musical oyster - adapt or die! I am not recommending anything specific at all! Time to slip on the cosy slippers and reflect on the glory days, heh?
("Music, the greatest good that mortals know...And all of heaven we have below..." Josepth ADDISON 1672-1719)
― herbalizer12 (herbalizer12), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)
In many ways I can sympathise with the (his) argument that you can sit on the the roundabout and watch the same things come 'round again and again just so many times before you start to feel sick and want to get off - but I also think that's a far more powerful as an argument in favour of trying new things than it is as an excuse for not doing so!
He has no particular affinity for reggae either I'm afraid (which doesn't make the task in hand any easier as it effectively closes a great many routes into Dance and Hip-Hop).
Getting a new friend really just ain't an option 'though, so I've got to keep persevering. Just between you and me < whisper > some things - like friendships - are even more important than music!
Besides - who knows - maybe in another 9 years I'll feel the same way myself.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)