Dead Genres

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How do you know when a genre is dead? Which genres fit the classification?

Inspired by the Hip-Hop is About to Die thread. I am trying to picture if hip-hop really could croak. If, say, swing is dead (is this even debateable?), could the same thing happen to hip-hop some day? Swing was massively popular pop music, right? Is disco dead?

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

hip-house was born in the late 80s and died a few years later...

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

go-go?

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

barbershop will never die¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I think to "die" a genre has to "live" first (i.e. obtain a certain level of popularity.) Hasn't go-go always been underground?

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

point taken...

polka?

was satanic rap ever popular?

hmm,

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

aramaic hip-hop?
m.

― msp, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

waltzes

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Pflaz! kind of fizzled out. I don't think anyone practices it anymore, now that Pflaztro lost their destributor.

― Michael Patrick Brady (Michael Patrick Brady), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

New Beat (the day Sound of C was released)

― nathalie (nathalie), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"was satanic rap ever popular?" Triple-6. We mostly know them for tearin the club up and poppin pills, but every now and then stuff like 'I'm Losin It' and some older tunes had hint of the red.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah there were 2 groups in Detroit that were big (locally?) in the early-mid 90's - Esham & Natas.

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think rapping will (for better or worse) remain an option for vocalists, and music with hip-hop like rhythms will continue to be made, but it could all mutate into something that is different enough that it's no longer called hip-hop; or it could lose most of its audience to other forms and become a specialist niche genre. Hip-hop is still making its way around the world, so who knows in what form it may return to the U.S. and trigger some new musical tangent or genre?

Swing is obviously not what it was, but there are still swing bands around, and the Sun Ra Arkestra's current repertoire is dominated by swing numbers (that genuinely swing in a pretty standard sense, even if the soloing is bop and free jazz derived).

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra to thread.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra to thread.
-- o. nate

Is this to affirm that swing is dead?

I don't think to "die" a genre has to be completely eradicated a la smallpox. More that it returns to being a specialist niche thing after enjoying great popularity.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I would say that the LCJO is pretty popular. They just had a very expensive new concert hall built in the new Time Warner complex at Columbus Circle. Wynton Marsalis is perhaps the best known contemporary jazz musician. There shows regularly sell out. They tour all over the country.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"There shows" Aaaargh! Elementary school grammar to thread.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Swing was more a specific style within a genre, as opposed to its own genre. Hip hop is its own genre. Perhaps we'll see "swing hop" come to fruition and then die? Unless it already happened and no one noticed...

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Hip house wasn't a genre, it was a chemical compound.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Hippie Hair Metal? Were there any other groups besides Enuff Z'Nuff (I don't think they count as a genre just by themself).

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Keith, I'm sure Mr. Lee, Tyree Cooper, & many others would disagree. They kept talking about how cool hip house was in every hip house song too, but they didn't really rap about anything else besides that, so people got bored pretty fast.

― pete from the street, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete, I was just referring to Merlin's own description of the genre in his track with the Beatmasters (Who's in the house?).

― Keith Watson (kmw), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think baroque might be a dead genre.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Or possibly qawwali.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

;-)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

'Polka' just turned into hardcore, then death metal. Well shit, if you can play an electric bass and still call it 'jazz' then who needs accordions?

― dave q, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

grunge is truely dead.

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

you are unfamiliar with Nickelback? Staind?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

A genre is dead when it isn't in the singles list anymore. Doesn't mean it is necessarily dead forever, but it will probably never be as massive as before.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I demand the imminent return of Ragtime!

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck dat - i want to hear those good ol' time slave songs, as sung by a chain gang from 1755

― Patrick Kinghorn, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't you mean 1855?
In 1755 they merely made the prisoner walk the plank.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"I think baroque might be a dead genre"

I know a guy who plays baroque violine quite seriously. I went to a concert of his, and there were other baroque musicians there as well (and audience members).

So it ain't dead.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think genres die. They get incorporated or co-opted. They live on in the minds and hearts of those who hear them.

Amen.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Grindcore.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

meatbop

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

'psycho hill-billy'

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone want to name the last good new blues record? Was it recorded more recently than oh say 1970?

― Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 27 November 2003 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

go-go was indeed a genre with a certain popularity, see George Clinton.

also:
britpop
hi-NRG

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 27 November 2003 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

is psychedelia dead?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 27 November 2003 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Cmon brain. Punchline Punchline...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Grindcore, Chris Ott? DEAD? It is EVERYWHERE.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone want to name the last good new blues record? Was it recorded more recently than oh say 1970?

RL Burnside to thread

― Michael B, Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

go-go isn't dead. but no one has defined being alive or being dead, so who knows.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

grebo

― c.bain, Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

surely Grebo is dead ? what about fraggle pop (senseless things/something happens/sensitise) ?

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 27 November 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

camden lurch!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 27 November 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you heard Part Chimp, Jim?

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 27 November 2003 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

dead music = casey jones

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yes

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Most genres that have been popular in the past are dead. They may reoccur, but then under another name.

For instance, synthpop is dead, but electroclash has a lot in common with synthpop musically. Merseybeat has been dead since the mid 60s, but a lot of it was to be found in mid 90s Britpop.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

But hip-hop isn't a subgenre, like synthpop or britpop.

― man, Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

genres evolve and mutate, on that we can all agree.

so 'hip hop' has more in common now with 'r'n'b' than it did in '95. and less in common with late eighties james brown sample era hip hop.

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's say a genre dies when it goes from being a form of popular music to something with niche appeal and go from there. Swing is dead.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

oh that kind of swing! i was thinkin en vogue. proves it's dead, really.

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I never really understood what defines grunge, but it seems to have died. As somone said up-thread.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't swing kinda back with the whole Jamie Callum bollox that is being rehashed once again.
jeans and converse and old scholl crooning maketh pots of Cassh. Lovely. still sh*te though.

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

The answer is skiffle. Incredibly popular at one ppint, served its purpose, yet NOBODY makes skiffle these days.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't swing back about 8 years ago. With that movie and that Gap commercial. Plus those ridiculous swing revival bands. That was a really irritating trend. I am glad it's dead again.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"NOBODY makes skiffle these days

Funny you should say that, but it made a bizzarre comeback amongst buskers in Glasgow during the time it was European City of Culture!!!! (1990!!!) It was getting to the point where you couldn't turn a corner in the city streets without being assailed by a trio of be-quiffed young whippersnappers yelping out some doggerel accompanied by double-bass, acoustic guitar, and single snare drum!!!!! They didn't go as far as bringing out the washboard, but the modern equivalent of a tumble dryer is a little bulky for young musicians to be carting around on tha streetz!!!!!!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.deadmedia.org/

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

But hip-hop isn't a subgenre, like synthpop or britpop.

Yes it is. Like funk, disco and soul before it, hip-hop is a subgenre of R&B.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I never really understood what defines grunge, but it seems to have died.

Artistically, grunge died with Kurt Cobain
Commercially, grunge is still very much alive thanks (?) to Creed and Dave Matthews Band.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I definitely wouldn't call Dave Matthews Band "grunge"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 27 November 2003 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely we have to factor in not only popularity but the possibility of creative development. If the interest in a genre has become primarily archival/curatorial/tributary then I guess you could say it is "dead". If the music is still changing, even if the audience is small, then I don't think you could say it's dead.

eg. UK Garage could be considered dead in that its audience has imploded, but creatively it's very much alive.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-grunge is not grunge. Creed is NOT keeping grunge alive. They are not grunge. Grunge is dead.

Dave Matthews Band is jam-rock or something.

If hiphop is a subgenre of R&B, that means there's actually only 4 or 5 genres. Which I guess would be pop/rock, rnb, classical, world music and jazz. But then many R&B songs follow the same format as pop songs, so it should actually be called pop/rock/r&b. I disagree with this, sorry.

― billstevejim, Friday, 28 November 2003 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If hiphop is a subgenre of R&B, that means there's actually only 4 or 5 genres. Which I guess would be pop/rock, rnb, classical, world music and jazz.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 29 November 2003 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

So billstevejim, are you saying that there are 6 genres, with "world" counting as one of them?

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 29 November 2003 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't being serious, I was just saying, if you classify hiphop as a sub-genre of R&B, you may as well put as much together as possible, which defeats the purpose of labelling genres.

I'm anti-labelling anyway, I don't even know why I bothered writing that.

― billstevejim, Saturday, 29 November 2003 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

jazz has been dead for nearly fifteen years.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Saturday, 29 November 2003 05:21 (twenty-one years ago)

At this time, someone might point out that genres aren't organic entities in space and time but products of collective convention, which renders questions of life and death very metaphorical </spoilsport>

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 29 November 2003 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Grebo

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 29 November 2003 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

grunge is definitely dead. You can't quite define it, but when you listen to soul asylum now, it just seems like old music. it's grunge, and it's most certainly dead.

as for hippie hair metal, does extreme count? Rest In Peace is definitely a hippie hair metal song...not familiar enough with the rest of their catalogue to say either way.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 15 January 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"Artistically, grunge died with Kurt Cobain
Commercially, grunge is still very much alive thanks (?) to Creed and Dave Matthews Band.

-- Geir Hongro"

You seem to have miss-read the question. This isn't the "what's the stupidest thing you've ever heard someone say about music?" thread...

― Stupid (Stupid), Thursday, 15 January 2004 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

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