Do you think Beyonce Knowles is ever saddened by Jay-Z's lyrics?

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Does she listen to Big Pimpin' and gaze out the limo window wondering if he really means it when he says "Me give my heart to a woman? Not for nothin, never happen / I'll be forever mackin / Heart cold as assassins / I got no passion" ?

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i bet you just wish she was, don't you!!

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

why must you destroy her happiness solange?!

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I am very happy for her yet I do wonder about how they feel about each other's lyrics. Is Jigga elated by "Crazy In Love" or worried by the possessiveness of the sentiment, the slightly unhinged desperation of "kinda hoping you'd page me right now"? Does "Independent Women" reassure him or scare him?

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

it lets him off the hook

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

how so? because she is crazy in love with him, the bonnie to his clyde? therefore she's OK with the fact that he "don't fucking need em" when it comes to ladies?

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd be more worried about "the problem is, you dudes treat the one that you lovin'/ with the same respect as the one that you humpin'"

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you're crediting her with more insight than her circuits are capable of simulating.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

You think she is too dumb to care about her boyfriend's lyrics? Why do you think she's dumb? How was the Klan meeting last night, anyway, asshole?

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

self-delusion is the crux of any relationship, no?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought she was his beard, anyway.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say she was dumb, I insinuated she's a REPLICANT! READ MY POST AGAIN, DAMMIT!

And let's say -- for the sake of argument -- that I did say she was dumb. What does that have to do with race?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Since he assumed it was about race, wouldnt that make Solange racist? Or wait, maybe I'm racist.

The race card is confusing.

― David Allen, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

btw baby you still on daddy's payroll? you wanna get a cup of coffee or somethin?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

oh sorry you didn't say dumb, david duke, you said she was an inhuman programmed slave! that's much better... racist pig.

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Alright there, Crazy McKooky.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

:::yawn::::

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

you know if you had just called alex an imbecile, it would have been true AND not gotten lost in the race-card shuffle.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

infantile even

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hah, an ILM thread getting lost in the race-card shuffle... that's funny.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

fine, but alex still seems pretty damn racist to me... I asked a perfectly reasonable question and practically get called the n-word for it!

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.badmovies.org/random/barf.jpg

― 6, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

naive?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

numbskull

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Alright, let's take this a step further, then. Let's say....and this is a big hypothetical....that Beyonce isn't a sleek, factory-designed machine whose sole directive is pop cultural saturation at any cost. Let's say she's a living, breathing, sentient human being in full command of all her senses and emotions. In such an instance, surely she would've done the necessary research into Jay-Z's lyrical canon and gleaned that the man in question has a penchant for self-mythology and flagrant misogyny. Would she assume?: (a) that's it's an all an act, and that's he's actually a very nice gentleman with nothing but good intentions and respect for fidelity or (b) he's a potty-mouthed rogue with a grave problem keeping his pants on, but oooh...I can change him. Both options seem pretty naive to me. But hey, it's her life.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

fine, but alex still seems pretty damn racist to me... I asked a perfectly reasonable question and practically get called the n-word for it!

It wasn't an n-word, it was an r-word. R for REPLICANT, and it wasn't directed at you, but rather at Beyonce.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i really like solo star.

― brian badword (badwords), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

NEXUS 6 Replicants are superior in strength and agility, and at least equal in intelligence, to the genetic engineers who create them.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

first off, huckleberry why don't you shut your cracker mouth? nobody asked you anything.

next, thanks, alex. that makes sense. see? there was no need to resort to racial chap-shots when you could have just explained your point in the first place without being all nasty.

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Cracker?

whenever I sing "crazy in love" I always wind up singing "crazy for you" by Heart instead.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

alex do you honestly believe that people are robots?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

your brain scares me beyond belief.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Huckleberry I thought I told you to shut YOUR MOUTH. You are a FOOL.

― Solange Knowles, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

tee hee racial chap shots

― lol, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I. DIDN'T. MAKE. A. RACIAL. CHAP-SHOT.

I don't even know what a "chap-shot" is.

Not liking an artist who happens to be of a certain ethnic group does NOT equate with a sweeping disdain for all members of said ethnic group. I don't particularly like the music of Japanese noise band, The Boredoms, but that doesn't mean I hate all Japanese people.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

have you ever described eye as being too stupid to process human emotion?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(eye = member of the Boredoms, for those of you keeping score at home).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

actually i was referring to hallie selassie i

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Why are you suggesting that I think robots and replicants are dumb? I don't decry the toaster for not being able make ice cream....it's simply not designed to make ice cream, in the same way certain machines aren't designed to simulate human emotion.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

jeeeeesus.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

oh sorry i misspelled "cheap-shot" you tee hee motherfuckers and contrary to your protestations your "sweeping disdain" is all too clear, david duke. equating someone with a machine is saying they are dumb & only useful for performing specific tasks which = the logic behind slavery. chew on that.

― Solange, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

bullshit, Solange.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i dont even know how to counter that last one with a joke, alex!

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

How is my "sweeping disdain" all too clear? Just because I may have a dislike for Beyonce (which, honestly, I do), why do you think that has anything to do with race? Why can't you grasp the notion that I simply am tired of her ubiquotous presence in the media and that don't particularly think her music warrant the fawning praise it receives? Why can't you understand that I object to the individual and not the ethnicity that happens to only be one facet of her overall composition?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

haha alex equating someone with machinery and then saying you object to them as an individual is pretty specious reasoning

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

reducing people to their instrumental relations = deeply anti-humanist and offensive. probably not racist.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops xpost.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

or is this some pre-henry ford steampunk pop star shit?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

alex you really do have an uncannily ruthless method of dehumanizing everything that you don't like. you're not helping your case by refusing to see how that's at least potentially in sympatico with a giant catalogue of isms.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

reducing people to their instrumental relations = deeply anti-humanist and offensive. probably not racist.

Anti-humanist? Offensive? These are slurs I can deal with, but I wasn't being a racist. Incidentaly, the "racist" accusation is a pretty damn serious one that I see thrown around ILX with alarming regularity.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 56 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

oops, must leave that to someone else.

― fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ok as usual this thread has gone all ILM race conspiracy creepy, but the important lyric here is from the "One Minute Man" remix:

"get your independent ass outta here -- question?"

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 4 December 2003 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, I find it VERY odd (and amusing) that people would find this particular (hilariously shrill and brain-damaged) race conspiracy equivalent to the average ILM race conspiracy.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 December 2003 03:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Who the hell knows what makes celebrity couples tick? Are they actually couples or PR ploys? I'm deeply skeptical. That's why I wouldn't want to be a celebrity. Their persona is so big that it's easy to forget they're people with feelings.

'everybody hurts sometimes.' Even Jay-Z. I bet he's fallen for a girl and been rejected.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 4 December 2003 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahaha

Jay-Z got rejected, Jay-Z got rejected! Who's the pimp now?

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 4 December 2003 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't anyone besides me think Alex was just being silly and tongue-in-cheek in his initial post???

― Clarke B., Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't anyone besides me think Alex was just being silly and tongue-in-cheek in his initial post???

I think calling Beyonce a robot is pretty amusing, and thinking otherwise is robotism. Robotist!!

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway, Dom's answer is the correct one.

― hstencil, Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Clarke Alex doesn't have the mechanical facilities to approximate "tongue-in-cheek" - he is a machine designed to spurt beer over his keyboard in outrage.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

spurt budweiser in particular.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and that's fine...i mean, you don't expect your toaster to make ice cream!!

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

or your ice cream to be toasted

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 4 December 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

or your rock music to be made by machines

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

My uncle runs a guitar farm.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

everything is organic and the consumers are all the healthier for it. in fact you might even say those who don't consume are consuming the equivalent of big macs or something. an intensely complicated theory I admit.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 4 December 2003 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan, in my experience they're pretty much all shrill and brain-damaged.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got a black PC on my desk at work now - its really fast and sleek. I think its genetic.

Of course, I wouldn't let my sister have one.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 4 December 2003 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

I THINK BEYONCE IS JUST A YOUNGSTER THAT MADE IT BIG AND SHES NOT ALL THAT PRETTY UNLESS SHE CAKES TONS OF MAKE-UP ON AS FOR JAY-Z HES ONE UGLY SON OF A BITCH BUT HE RAPS HELLA TIGHT

― FELICIA ANN LUCERO, Wednesday, 24 March 2004 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Beyonce would be more saddened by people thinking she might be related to Harry Knowles.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Or Eric.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.celebfashions.com/images/beyonce-flower.jpg http://www.pherber.com/pwhpics/ekportrait.jpg

I can't pinpoint it but there's some similarity there isn't there? I think a DNA test is needed.

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it just me, or has she got a moustache in that picture?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: http://www.klru.org/austinnow/archives/images/knowles/Untitled-2.gif vs. http://www.elvidge.com/users/jimbo/top10/images/beyonce.jpg

― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

For the love of God, why doesn't he shave his beard/cut his hair? He's a homely guy no matter what, but he doesn't have to look THAT BAD.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

He needs to back that azz up.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

ARGH BAD FLASHBACKS TO YESTERDAY'S ILE CONVERSATION ARGH

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The Knowleses would be a great sitcom.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The Knowleses would be a great sitcom.

Shouldn't the plural be "Knowlii"?

― Nick H (Nick H), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

SOLANGE I THINK YOUR REALY RUDE TALE IT EASY GIRL

― MORENA, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

SOLANGE I THINK YOUR RUDE AND I MENT TO SAY TAKE IT EASY!!!!

― MORENA, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Beyonce ain't so innocent: wuzzent she strapped to the Republican War Machine in that last video? Cheeseburger between her legs... She's in love with nothing but Texas Crude.

― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"You think she is too dumb to care about her boyfriend's lyrics? Why do you think she's dumb? How was the Klan meeting last night, anyway, asshole? "

Stupidest quote I've ever seen. Saying a black woman is stupid is obviously racist, because no Black people are stupid.

You'd have a semblance of a point if he said she was stupid BECAUSE she was Black or even implied it, but he didn't.

― uh, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"oh sorry i misspelled "cheap-shot" you tee hee motherfuckers and contrary to your protestations your "sweeping disdain" is all too clear, david duke. equating someone with a machine is saying they are dumb & only useful for performing specific tasks which = the logic behind slavery. chew on that."

Do you not find it the least bit humorous that you took that much out of a comment that didn't make anywhere near such an inference, unprovoked?

Old comment, but I couldn't resist :)

― uh, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

sixteen years pass...

Relistening to her s/t album, his verse on drunk in love is just so unnecessary.

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 11:51 (four years ago)

"Your breasteses are my breakfast" lol

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 11:52 (four years ago)

that line just sounds like Gollum, filthy hobbitses

― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:06 (four years ago)

anyway, as far as the thread, she has to be pretty into it, as jay also raps "I'm Ike, Turner, turn up / Baby no I don't play / Now eat the cake, Anna Mae / I said eat the cake, Anna Mae" on drunk in love. i wonder if she okays his verses that appear on her songs or if she lets it go as its her husband, or she just doesnt read much into it, and thinks its just song/rap lyrics, and nothing more.

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:28 (four years ago)

I'll ever forget Kitty Pryde getting clowned on for interpreting that lyric as "eat the cake, anime."

― peace, man, Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:37 (four years ago)

in fairness, he doesnt put much emphasis on the 'i' as 'ee', but yeah.

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:44 (four years ago)

maybe when theyre alone, they do ike and tina role playing.

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:45 (four years ago)

eat the cake everyone. namaste.

― plax (ico), Sunday, 21 March 2021 12:48 (four years ago)

that line is fucked up and inexplicable

― treeship., Sunday, 21 March 2021 14:10 (four years ago)

i never heard a good defense of it. "ike and tina turner roleplay" sounds like the most likely explanation of what he is referring to, i guess. but that's really offensive to tina turner. they should keep it to themselves if they need to do that.

― treeship., Sunday, 21 March 2021 14:13 (four years ago)

the other reading is that jay z is comparing himself to ike, struggling with feelings of jealousy now that his wife's career has eclipsed his. but again, something for the therapy couch, or perhaps something that could be explored in a more nuanced song. just bringing it up as a joke line and dropping it was bizarre.

― treeship., Sunday, 21 March 2021 14:16 (four years ago)

Jesus, this thread is ugly.

― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 21 March 2021 14:22 (four years ago)

Xpost, that reading would be a major reach. Youre being much too generous. There is also the line about beating up the box like Tyson, which while maybe just about hard sex so hey whatever, is also just a bit weird for a song about being drunk in love (as opposed to the whisper song). But then idk if Jay z has any good sex raps that arent cringe. In fairness many of beyonce's lines about sex are also cringe. His are just worse.

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 14:33 (four years ago)

its just song/rap lyrics

This. Seriously. Same for most artists, especially major label pop/r&b/rap/rock artists. With some exceptions, (Lemonade and 4:44 sorta), both are playing up to an image to an extent, doubly so back then.

― octobeard, Sunday, 21 March 2021 18:22 (four years ago)

On lemonade and 444, yeah, they were def designed to corroborate a p.r. story but in 2013? Was the story to flirt with legends of domestic abuse? I just see it as standard fare rap lyrics, but stuck in the wrong place. Or maybe that was the point, put some dumb lyrics where they dont belong, and watch responses fly (or not, as no one wants to say anything much bad about queen bey)

― candyman, Sunday, 21 March 2021 19:06 (four years ago)

people didn't scrutinize things in the same way in 2013. even so, the line is ugly and, when you notice it, it ruins the song.

― treeship., Sunday, 21 March 2021 19:23 (four years ago)

Agree. Most of Jay's cameos add nothing to her songs though.

― candyman, Monday, 22 March 2021 06:17 (four years ago)

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