Is Rakim possibly the best rapper - ever?

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/expert.html - tangentially relevant.

Kool Keith is not the best anything ever. He's just mentally ill, is all.

I like how he pops a series of "p"s and how it goes with the rhythm in "Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em" (is it "'em"?), my favorite song by Eric B. & Rakim.

i also think slick rick is better but then i think slick rick is better than a lot of things.

the solo stuff is really good-rapping-wise-can't say the music is very memorable.

somebody should say something nice about ice cube.

anyway, he rocks because of the huge number of rave records that sample him

the doc
erick sermon

I wouldn't say so, he's a great storyteller but his flow isn't particularly impressive, it always sounds kinda same.

Big Daddy Kane
GZA
Redman
Big L (well, could've been...)
Scarface

For an entire body of work, Jay-Z is, for me, the most consistent/listenable/enjoyable/what-have-you. There's the typical ILM response someone asked for earlier in the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGICfBmtpY

I look at it like this: NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim. There are a shit-ton of rappers who have been better at rapping about other stuff than Rakim, but NONE of them have been better at rapping about rapping.

yeah listening to addictive the other week just hit home to me how 'visceral' my reaction to rakim can be--it feels like my heart stops beating when hes rapping. but i like elvis and chuck berry so maybe im just a herb.

and the thing about addictive is that it came 10+ years after the guys supposed peak

and he doesnt sound out of place or dated at all

NO ONE has ever been better at rapping about rapping than Rakim

this makes sense to me

his flow has aged amazingly -- timeless. remember that kanye/premo "classic" track?? he destroys everyone on it

yeah!!! i love him on "classic"

i would like to direct people to this classic poll:

What is the most ridiculous thing in the music video for Rakim's "Guess Who's Back"?

I think this debate misses the mark. G.O.A.T. status is something attained to but never reached. There will always be someone who takes what the greats have done and builds upon it, thus making him/herself greater. Honestly, I think Eminem is a prime example of this. IMO, the only question relevant to Rakim's legacy is: Has any other emcee had more influence on the craft than Ra? Possibly.

Circa 1981, Moe Dee changed the game when he battled Busy Bee and spawned more imitators than his contemporaries (except maybe Melle Mel). Fast forward to 1986; Ra drops Eric B is President/My Melody and every would be rapper adopted his style of craftsmanship. His became the new standard; even Moe Dee acknowledged "a new sheriff in town."

Since Ra, NWA , B.I.G. & others us new standards for content, but by-and-large, the standard for rap lyric structure today is based upon what Ra reintroduced in 1986. Pioneer fans can tell you Spoonie Gee was using similar rhyme schemes as far back as 1983 ("The Big Beat). But most of the best lyricists of the late '80s and throughout the '90s will name Ra as the most influential on their own styles (check out BET documentary about Rakim http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80598858/).

so exactly why did they bother putting Eric B's name on anything?

still find 2/3rds of the beats on Follow the Leader to be terrible tbh

Lol shut up

I am digging the 18th Letter tho, he's good with that trad boom bap style underneath him

https://x.com/fakeshoredrive/status/1734721230534590469?s=20

well..there is finally a new Rakim album, and it's awful. what a bummer.

he produced it himself I guess, the beats are so generic sounding. it's larded down with so many guest appearances that it feels like he's a guest on his own album. very half-assed for something that took so long to come.

Should have had Q-Tip do the whole thing

yeah i heard a few tracks and didn't go any further. whutyagonnado? he can do whatever he wants imo. i can't even think of a classic rapper who has put out a great album at this late date. there probably are some. i liked the new LL tracks that i heard! Rakim should have had LL make his record for him.

Q-Tip produced the LL album, is why I mentioned it :)

ah! i did not know that, haha!

it turns out great minds think alike even when one of them is ignorant of current events!

also w/Q-Tip the last Tribe album was probably the best late period old rapper album I can think of

He did that Danny Brown album too, he's really been on a low-key streak.

it seems like such a no-brainer for younger savvy beatmakers to make a great album for a legend. make them sound good. i would think it would be fun. young producers could battle each other to see who put out the best oldhead album.

All he'd have to do is release the acapellas and call it a contest and a legion of youtube boom bap producers would take it on.

hell yeah!

yeah there are so many currently boom bap producers who could have made a great rakim record, conductor williams, alchemist, preservation, roc marciano, dj muggs, big ghost ltd etc etc

Great lyrical rappers have sometimes shown a disinterest in beat quality. Think of stuff like Immobilarity.

Nas has picked so many awful beats in his career too

would love Rakim to work with Armand Hammer

rakim himself did a lot of the beats/music on the old E.B.& R records. i think. or he says he did anyway.

E.B. being the muscle.

i should really read R's book. i don't know why i haven't.

Just read this interview with Patrick Adams, after hearing someone say on a podcast that he was the reason all the samples were in key and in tune on those Eric B & Rakim records: https://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/patrick-adams

Two things about this; I engineered that and some people would tell you I produced it. I participated. See, I’m not the type who wants to grab all the glory. I mean, it’s obvious Rakim as a writer, you can’t grab any glory out of that. And as a performer, I will tell you, what you heard there he did in one take. As he mentioned in his lecture, he would write in the studio. He would write, say, eight lines and then record it, eight lines, record it. Then he would take it home and he’d come in the next night, and he’d do it in one take and he used to blow us away. I got to tell you, one of the greatest experiences in life – and think about this – can you imagine night after night being the first person and the only person to hear that shit? That shit used to fuck my head up. And he was always on.

Anyway, when you listen to that again, as I know you will someday, you’ll notice that there’s reverb on the bass. There’s a room on the bass and there’s a different room sound on the tom toms and the foot. This is what I’m talking about. I mean, that’s creativity. Back then most people would use a drum machine and the samples were flat and they sound horrible. One of the reasons Paid In Full sounds so good was my perception of – that don’t sound the way drums are supposed to sound. Drums are supposed to have this meat to them, this reflection from the walls and whatnot. That was probably a major contribution of mine, the fact that all the samples on that album are in pitch. Most rap albums in the middle ‘80s, the samples were in different keys and it’ll hurt your ears after a while. It just was sonically sick. So Eric B. and Rakim, they allowed me to pitch their samples up or down until they were in relative keys. And then I mixed the album.

JEFF “CHAIRMAN” MAO

But how did you actually mic Rakim’s voice? You did something a little bit different.

PATRICK ADAMS

Yes, see, we have an easy way of speaking into the mics. It’s not popping. Anybody in here who’s an engineer knows, when you have somebody who’s right up in the mic and their projection is powerful, all you’re going to hear is ‘pop, pop, pop.’ It was actually out of frustration. One night – well, the first night, because we would have gotten nothing done otherwise – I said, I’ll use a bass drum mic. So, I went and I took the RE20 out the closet and I said, “Here, talk into this.” Because, it didn’t matter – compression, limiter – nothing helped. I put that RE20 there, he got up on the mic and, “Yeah, pump up the bass.” The bottom of his voice just came right up and the rest of his voice was right in your face. And I put a compressor on that. That was wonderful and that’s how we arrived at that. Not even Rush Limbaugh uses an RE20. Heaven help me.

there's also rumors that Marley Marl, the late Paul C and Large Professor ghost produced for them

anyways these new beats rakim made are terrible

it blew my mind when i found out via the internet that Rakim was my age. when i was a kid listening to him i thought he was, like, 20 years older than me. or 20 eons older than me. when i bought those records in 1987 and 1988 i was...19 or 20. and so was he! unbelievable. i could barely get out of bed when i was 20.

he did seem like an old soul

as well as Patrick Adams et al (eg 45 King, Stevie Blass Griffin) on Follow The Leader, Marley Marl ghost-produced much or all* of Paid In Full, and most of Don't Sweat The Technique was started by Paul C. and completed by Large Pro after his murder.

*Eric has argued that if he suggested a single sample, then he was the producer. "Marlon has not gotten a dollar in publishing and never has taken us to court to get publishing and he is not the producer... I took (Over Like A Fat Rat by Fonda Rae, prod. Bob Blank) to Marley Marl's house in Queensbridge and paid Marley Marl to be the engineer. That's why he's not a producer; that's why he is not getting publishing. I brought the music. I just couldn't work the equipment because that's not what I did."

Eric has argued that if he suggested a single sample, then he was the producer. "Marlon has not gotten a dollar in publishing and never has taken us to court to get publishing and he is not the producer

gee i wonder if there's any other reason someone wouldn't want to take Eric B to court

Large Pro, also not credited as a producer or receiving publishing:

“What I gained from workin’ with Eric B. & Rakim was just, you gotta be sharp with your business. You gotta make sure you got your business right. Make sure you look out for the people who’s comin’ up, up under you. Make sure you’re lookin’ out for them. The young kids that’s comin’ up, you gotta make sure you’re lookin’ out for them, that you’re not trying to take advantage of them or anything like that. That’s what I learned.”

He was 17 when he worked on the album (completing Paul C.'s tracks, doing two solo, and drum programming for the Rakim-produced No Omega, looks like.)

It is kinda funny to think that just bringing a James Brown record to the studio counts as producing, but that did seem to be common practice in the early days, even for Tribe and De La before they owned samplers. They'd produce demos at home doing pause tapes or whatever, then bring the records to a studio and the engineer would spend all day putting everything together using whatever crazy methods they could.

Any time Jay-Z is credited as a co-producer on his songs, it's because he brought the sample to the guy who made the beat, that seems to be a semi-commom practice in rap.

gee i wonder if there's any other reason someone wouldn't want to take Eric B to court

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, August 1, 2024 2:03 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

the supreme court’s recent decision on presidential immunity

haha

lol voodoo

Rakim has a free show in Staten Island this Saturday at Stapleton Waterfront Park - he'll be joined by special guests like Joe Ski Love ("Pee Wee’s Dance"!)

https://cityparksfoundation.org/events/rakim-positive-k-sweet-tee-joe-ski-love-nice-smooth-dj-chubby-chub-hosted-by-video-music-box-ralph-mcdaniels/

I totally want to go to this, but it looks like a pain in the ass to get to if you're coming in from the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens.

damn I would go just to hear 'pee wee's dance' alone

Yeah, very tempting, but it would be a long subway ride, then a ferry ride, then a bus ride each way, and there's the free Raekwon show in Brooklyn at the same time.

Interesting interview with the producer of “don’t sweat the technique” who never really got credit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaF3TUXPIB0

My fav part is the extended celebration of Larry smith

The interviewers are kind of annoying however