Destroy This List

a fine follow-up to their highly addictive debut
album, "oh inverted world".

This does not make sense in the context of a LIST!

(the only semi-good albums are the ones which didn't make the final cut of 18, haha)

DO I belong here on these boards, not being an over-opiniated notjackblackinhifidelity kind a dude?

how does one "destroy" this?

Yeah, that list's actually not so bad. I like most of the albums on it, although they probably wouldn't make my own list, since I'd take care to craft my list to make me seem as cool as possible.

I will say this though:

1) The Malkmus haters out there simply haven't give that record a chance.

2) Bob Pollard need to hang it up.

their fifth killer record in a row. not like
this is news to anyone.....

It is to me.

This record I cannot replace with a better one that came out in 2003, because there was none.

This seems OTM to me. I mean, I have several friends who do this same sort of thing, and I'm always conscious of their musical blind spots (my friend Brian, for all his self-assured opinions about music, often seems like he gets most of his info from Entertainment Weekly) -- but whatever. I think it probably comes into focus more when you actually know the person for a while, and their tastes and inclinations start to come off as self-parody, and you start to wonder, "Dude, would it kill you to listen to some hip-hop???" But not knowing this guy, I don't really care.

But yeah, the fact that the guy is superenthusiastic and obviously really loves the music goes a long way for me. I'm much more forgiving of people with narrow tastes if they happen to be really superenthusiastic about what they do love.

The list is a bit narrow. But everything that I've heard on it (except the Radiohead) would make my year-end list.

What is it about hip-hop that you makes it so special you require everybody to listen to it?

this album is so boring and derivative.

er, ned this is by a million miles the weirdest thing you've ever said!

Ned, I can't believe you really believe this is true.

(People sometimes lose their rational faculties while arguing with Geir.)

I think of it this way, Rockist -- in terms of public attention and coverage, it's pretty damn hard in popular music terms to NOT hear hip-hop, and as we all know the majority of folks who listen to music are content to do so as something enjoyable in life rather than the raison d'etre that defines most of us here, with our own particular focuses and fetishes. Obviously at the same time there are a lot of shades and differences between extremes but I'm thinking if I asked most people my age or younger what they regularly listened to and/or what songs they really liked this year, hip-hop would be a very common thread, as common as other things and possibly more so. And there's neither anything wrong or surprising about that.

I think virtually no one who does this has actually heard enough of what's going on across the globe to make speak authoritatively on it (obviously including myself). It's interesting that while people complain about "best album" lists that aren't even considering entire regions of the world, some "best album of 2003" lists are acceptable, even though the people who made them didn't come close to making an exhaustive investigation. Some of the lists that people on ILM put together may take in a much broader range of genres and cultures than a Rolling Stone best album list, but I don't think they come close to really being based on an exhaustive over.

x-post w/ Ned:

I'm thinking if I asked most people my age or younger

Right, but there are a fair number of people my age and older who don't enjoy it. I don't think they should be exclused from "pretty much everyone," or whatever the exact phrase was.

in popular music terms

Right, but don't forget the people who don't listen to popular music (to the extent that they can avoid it).

I'm thinking if I asked most people my age or younger what they regularly listened to and/or what songs they really liked this year, hip-hop would be a very common thread, as common as other things and possibly more so. And there's neither anything wrong or surprising about that.

That's understood.

(The poor guy who made this list even described it as his "personal favorites," making no claim to exhaustively surveying pop music.)

I think Geir's question is a good one:

What is it about hip-hop that you makes it so special you require everybody to listen to it?

And, btw. particularly in album terms, "dadrock" is pretty popular too. Does that mean that every ILM regular is supposed to have at least a couple "dadrock" albums in his 2003 list?

Agreed, an overstatement -- and the worst thing would be to assume that to not be au courant with everything about hip-hop means you might as well go home (an attitude a touch prevalent on this board that I've never been fond of -- it doesn't work for saying that about rock or soul or country or whatever, it shouldn't apply there either). I am trying to argue more for a middle ground (that might itself be a bit of a strawman in turn) for a hypothetical 'general listener' that likes what's being heard and played in a mainstream sense, the much mocked 12 CD listener who presumably also tunes into all the mainstream stations and watches MTV etc.

Not right now. 20 years ago it was. In fact a lot bigger. And it may be again in 20 years. Since when did trends become important anyway?

(I hope this makes sense. It's not a retort to anything you just said, but more of a vague continuation of it.)

*Actually, when someone put on some Lauryn Hill toward the end of the party last night, when my friends and I were getting ready to leave, the only people moving to it were the person who put it on, my salsa friend, and me. I wanted to get back on the livingroom dance floor and start dancing, but we seemed to be on our way out.

No, perfect sense -- that's exactly the kind of person I'm talking about!

Well ok no, I lie, I liked that one Snoop Dogg song for its chorus.

But when TMBG did the guest programming on rage last year and they played loads of missy, Jay-Z (I think), P.Diddy and so on I was thinking "who the hell are these bands" and god I felt stupid. I also really dont like much of it, mind you my reasons why will have been done to death here by others so I'll not bother.

Rockist you've made an excellent point here.

Of course, I havent been able to avoid hearing hiphop - and keep in mind I NEVER listen to the radio - but I wouldnt know Jay-Z from Outkast from a bar of soap.

D'you know, Ive never heard "Hey Ya" or "In Da Club"?

Whats that make me?

(waits for Jim to make smartarse reply ;P)

xpost, Trayce:

Thanks, I can't take all the credit though.

For which she is paying a hefty fine to our dog ass government. :(

Its like... I dont get the fuss over eminem and missy (tho at least she does some interesting shit with samples).

I do love other kinds of dance/electro stuff though. I guess Ive never tried to hunt out genres, I just get hit with a song and go "hey thats great". And, as I seem to recall posting on one of my first ever posts on ILM, these days that "woah" thing rarely ever happens. Pity.

The only thing that could possibly make me absolutely write off the possibility of liking some new hip-hop is having people shove it down my throat (not that I think *you* are doing that).