What's the difference between a key and a scale?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I knew this once; now I don't.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The key is like the walls and ceiling and the scales are like the furniture.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha okay that is so wrong

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel shitty cuz this is something I understand but can't describe well. I'd be a horrible teacher.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

a key tells you which notes are harmonically permissible within the piece
eg C major - no D# unless otherwise noted, cos this would make it a minor key

a scale is a finger exercise running up and down the notes of a specific key.

zappi (joni), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Is a scale the thing one makes keys out of (using a fixed set of intervals each key must conform to)?

People speak of non-Western scales. Are there non-Western keys? Does that even make sense as a question?

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

There are lots of notes between the Western notes.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

A scale is a series of 7 individual notes (or you could include the 8th note - the octave). It could be minor or major etc, but it proceeds in "scalar", sequential fashion, hence its name. A key represents the harmonic center of a piece. For example, in the key of C, the notes you play are usually a part of the C-major scale: C, D, E, F, G, A, B and then back to C. In the key of C-minor, your notes would consist of ones found in the C-minor scale (of which there are many variations, all of which at least contain a flatted 3rd note, in this case Eb).

The reason you don't use "key" and "scale" interchangeably is because the key of a piece usually features more notes than just those contained in its corresponding "diatonic" major scale. Furthermore, scales cannot actually produce harmony on their own - that takes more than one voice, using notes from a scale.

Think of the key as the "big picture" harmonic structure of a piece, and a scale as a building block of that structure.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, there are many types of scales, some of which don't use 7 individual notes. What I'm describing is the typical Western notion of a major and minor scales.

dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Is a scale the thing one makes keys out of (using a fixed set of intervals each key must conform to)?

hmm, its a bit of a chicken/egg situation, they are both governed by the same harmonic rules


People speak of non-Western scales. Are there non-Western keys? Does that even make sense as a question?

er, sort of. keys do tend to be a western thing though, most non-western instruments (and some western ones) are designed to be played in only one key. eg. the bagpipes & sitar are defined by the drone that accompanies them, so are grounded in the same key.

zappi (joni), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm going to try another swipe at this and elaborate on some of the accurate things that people have said.

a key is the harmonic context for the piece. it sets two things: the root, or natural harmonic 'home base', and the set of 'legal' notes, although there are plenty of ways to include other notes.

a scale is an ordering of notes that sets a melodic context. all scales have a key, i.e. a harmonic context, and share the root or 'home base' with that key. however, scales are selections of notes from their key that provide the wherewithal to create melodies which have certain tonalities. so, a melody created from a pentatonic scale in D will have a different flavor from a melody created from a Dorian mode scale in D (that one, assuming a particular rhythmic approach, will sound mostly like british isles folk music). they both will share D as a root note but will visit different places along the way (and will have different numbers of available notes).

further complicating the matter is that many scales have the exact same notes but in different orders with different roots, and have different names. A C major scale has the same notes as a D dorian mode scale (i think), but they have very different tonalities because of the places they start and end. that is one of the most interesting things about musical tonality - it's not in the notes, it's in the sequence.

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Southern lights has done the best job here, I think.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

For a very short explanation, how about:

The key describes the harmony; the scale the melody.

Is that way off, do you think (apart from it necessarily being very much over-simplified)?

OleM (OleM), Thursday, 18 December 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

A C major scale has the same notes as a D dorian mode scale

This is true, except that when you talk about modes, you're no longer talking about tonal harmony. Church modes were designed to facilitate *counterpoint* (as opposed to "harmony"), and at that time, there wasn't a tonal harmony to speak of. In fact, our notions of harmony come out of the modal counterpoint.

I think for someone getting into music theory today, what is really hard is that very little popular music actually follows the "rules" of harmony, as you might learn in college. Just on a basic level, you don't hear as many V to I cadences in pop music. You hear lots of IV to I, and other variations. This is kind of an interesting situation, because even dating back to the use of church modes, and going through all periods of classical music up until the 20th century, emphasizing the "leading tone" just before returning to the root was the backbone of Western harmony. (And this doesn't even take into account atonal or other non-traditional harmonic structures in *most* experimental and modern classical music.)

dleone (dleone), Thursday, 18 December 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

what are cadences again?

martin (martin), Thursday, 18 December 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

A cadence is a musical conclusion, to a phrase. It's the part where you hear the music coming to a point of resolution. The most basic ("authentic") cadence is when the V (dominant) moves back to the I (root). In the key of C, this happens when G (often adding a 7th) moves back to C.

dleone (dleone), Thursday, 18 December 2003 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Great points by dleone. In essence, while it is tempting to talk about scales as subsets of keys (as I fundamentally did), it isn't really the case. There was a time when scales were all there was, and those modal scales don't really map directly on to our notion of keys.

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 18 December 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.