"Racist" flap at Empty Bottle

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I haven't seen anyone comment about this. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this, and what they think of the whole thing. I'll see what other people have to say, and add my two cents later.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/derogatis/cst-nws-bottle16.html

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

So basically Death in June is not a Nazi band, but Nazis are showing up to their shows, so their shows are getting cancelled. That sucks so much for them.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

article's not loading for me right now; all i know is that they decided to throw a dance party instead--and no one danced.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/chicagoindie/202428.html

― andrew s, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well... I haven't heard these bands, but I was unable to find anything online that links them to racist or anti-Semetic sentiments or actions. The singer for Death in June profeses a love of European folk music, and was in Crisis, who apparently have a release titled "We Are All Jews and Germans." It doesn't sound to me like they are racist or Anti-Semetic--just maybe a little provocative in their titling and imagery.

Has the CNC come up with anything resembling a fact? A statement made by a band member? An action? About any of the groups? It doesn't sound like it. I'm always one to stand on the side of the protesters, particularly when it comes to issues like this. Still, this sounds insane, and like an abuse of whatever activist power the CNC has.

― usualchannels, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Poor old Doug Pearce seems to have been dogged by this sort of thing since he was in the punk band Crisis. Partly because he / they often flirted with Nazi / Fascist imagery but historically because he was always very vehemently and aggressively left-wing.

It's a funny old world innit?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

what was C134r Chann3l's role in all of this?
or am I the only one who reads Harpers?

mind you, of the "evidence" given for these band's Nazi allegiances, Joy Division and Bowie (just to name two high profile examples) should be protested as well.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Welllllll, isn't Death In June's logo/ symbol the death's head thingamabob that Nazis wore on their uniforms -- I think it was the fucking SS symbol, even?

You'll have to pardon me here, I'm ignorant when it comes to Nazi minutae, but seem to I remember seeing it on Harvey Keitel's uniform in "Grey Zone." If DIJ's logo is from the Nazis, whatever their reason for using it, that's undoubtedly gonna stir shit, to say the least...

― yetimike (McGonigal), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing is, I know personally some of the people involved in this "ban the fascists" crap. They're not friends of mine, just people I'm familiar with in my work. Some of them are young people who suddenly became obsessed with politics 24/7 because they had a sheltered upbringing and now feel guilty about it.

I'm embarrassed for and disgusted by my hometown.

They have no idea what they're talking about and just ranting and raving because it makes them feel good, like they're accomplishing something. If someone merely says someone's a fascist, they believe it and act on it. And then if you ask for proof, they call you a fascist. It is a total witch hunt.

This crap is all over my inbox right now, and they're referring to these bands as "white power rock bands".

Maybe one or some of them is a closet fascist, I don't know, but they're not "white power rock bands" as far as I can tell. I'm sure they feed off this controversy, so basically, both sides have a symbiotic relationship.

And this "community group" - I've never heard of them in all my years of living here.

― Auntie Nym, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post: I reiterate that I could be totally wrong here, and apologize for the up-all-night lapse of grammar, re: grammar thread...

― yetimike (McGonigal), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

ha! i just spent some time reading these guys lyrics on the net. it's like bad genet for eighth-graders = they ARE fascists!

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Death In June is certainly not a "white-power rock band", but I think it's fair to say that a big question mark still hangs over the politics of Douglas Pearce. Although Crisis were a left-wing punk band, there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then. DIJ have made a career out of flirting with Nazi imagery, and from what I've read, Pearce seems loathe to explicity disassociate himself with certain aspects of nationalism. Maybe he's after the Neo-Nazi dollar. Maybe that's because this aura of mystery shifts records. I'm not sure.

Who were the other two bands on the bill?

― Jason J, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Theres a thread from earlier this year about whether Death In June are nazis. But I cant find it. Can anyone help?

― Rabid Ron, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

this whole thing smells like silliness.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't seen Doug Pearce for years - I used to know him, Tony Wakeford and Luke Rendle reasonably well when they were in Crisis (as well as Patrick Leagas and Richard Butler when they were in a local Reading band called The Runners From 1984) - but I find it hard to believe that he could subsequently have espoused views so violently different to the ones he used to hold so passionately.

That he might have become increasingly Stalinist on the other hand I could believe 'though - might this not also explain why he might not wish to "explicity disassociate himself with certain aspects of nationalism"?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

racist FLAPPERS!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's sad that white power has started to infiltrate some sectors of the flappercore scene. I had to stop going to some speakeasies altogether.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

this kind of shit has happened with Death In June for years - I know Doug Pearce has an absolute obsession with WWII and is a massive collector of Memorabilia etc.. he also has a taste for 'military men in uniform' - if you get my drift.

I also bump into one of the other guys from time to time.. he's no nazi - just in it for the buck.. like it or not - this kind of shit makes good money, and once that cash starts rolling in, it's kind of hard to stop... but to me that's what makes it so dangerous.. They might not be Nazis - and the majority of their audience isnt, but there are always a few idiots doing the salute thing at their shows...

― ian daknow, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, Tony Wakeford was affiliated with the NF wasn't he?

Stewart, I don't believe Pearce is a Nazi or a Stalinist... in fact it seems he goes out of his way to reject all labels. He's also stated on the record that he never wanted Death In June to be a 'political' band. Ideologically, though, it seems like he's taken certain positions that people would consider to be typically rightist. A lot of grey areas involved, mind. There's some conjecture on Death In June here that may be of interest.

http://www.darksites.com/mirror/vaults/music/Death_In_June_Nazi_1

― Jason J, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

But I guess the real question here is, should you ban a live band because of the fans they have been shown to attract? Pearce is not a politican, he's an idealogue. So does this absolve him from blame?

― Jason J, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I always saw a few skinheads at Wedding Present shows in NYC... Perhaps we should boycott their records...

― usual channels, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think they were banned because of the fans they attract - they show was cancelled because there was sure to be a fight, and who the hell wants that on their property?

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever, who cares, Death in June rulz

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't help that Death In June has or had an association with Boyd Rice in the past, someone who has said a lot of supportive (and imho not very well thought out) things about the concept of fascism in general. Then again, there are those who say Boyd just wants attention. Either way, I always thought it was Rice's association that gave fuel to the protesting.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

not in this particular situation, as Boyd Rice wasn't playing the concert.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, i figured people can normally stand to "collaborate" with Boyd Rice for a maximum of five minutes before one wants the other's throat. But this is hardly the first time a Death In June concert was protested. Many many years ago in Los Angeles, a show (without Boyd Rice mind you) was protested, though I talked to one of the protesters of that show much later after the fact, and we discussed it, and the main impetus behind him protesting was mainly in the context of Boyd Rice's association with the band at one point. Which doesn't necessarily bide well for the fellow's argument altogether, mind you. But though Boyd Rice is long gone from Death In June, apparently he's left a little stink in DIJ's reputation, apparently.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm not defending nor attacking Douglas Pearce mind you.. I don't know much about the band nor his political history, so I won't comment any further)

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

(Oh, stence, Juan Garcia says hi to you. :) )

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Juan Garcia?

― hstencil, Thursday, 18 December 2003 05:36 (twenty-two years ago)

he's no nazi - just in it for the buck..

man, i love the 'i know someone - and they LAUGH at you for buying their records, sucker' thing. never gets old.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Thursday, 18 December 2003 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

marilyn manson to thread

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 18 December 2003 05:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Juan Garcia?

Shit, i probably fucked up his last name and deserve shit for it. Sound guy, use to live in SW Michigan, now in Chi. Touring as sound guy for Pinback.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 18 December 2003 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Are Death In June Nazis?

― Rabid Ron, Thursday, 18 December 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

But I guess the real question here is, should you ban a live band because of the fans they have been shown to attract

There were a few skinhead/racist/white power bands active in the north-east of england in the '80's, and they were pretty much blanket-banned from any live venue. Part of the reason was revulsion w/the politics, but another big part was that trouble would always kick off at their gigs - fights, the place getting trashed etc.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 18 December 2003 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

db, do you mean Juan Carrera, ex-Warmers? I think he still lives in Michigan, btw. Cool he said hi.

― hstencil, Friday, 19 December 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes yes, him. He was really excited to hear that I "knew" you (we haven't formally met, hence why i'm using the quotes), and wanted to know if you were doing OK.

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 December 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry for derailing the thread)

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 19 December 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck the thread, tell him I need a job!

― hstencil, Friday, 19 December 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.