Kurt Cobain: not a very good lyricist, right?

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Just listening to In Utero (which I don't do often, cos, I must admit, I don't rate Nirvava too highly amongst punk bands), and I realised that most of the lyrics are awful.

"Rape me, my friend, I'm not the only one" (erm, imagine Staind singing this)

"Penny Royal Tea" (nice pun)

Polly wants a cracker
Think I should get off of her first
I think she wants some water
To put out the blow torch" (OK...)

"I am buried up to my neck in
Contradictionary lies
I take pride as the kind of illiterature
I'm very ape and very nice" (contradictionary! illiterature! brilliant!)

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Who cares? Some of the best songs in history have rotten lyrics. In Nirvana's case, I think the lyrics were secondary to the movement of the songs, though. I can't imagine Kurt trying to write some sort of eloquent verse to be growled over a song like "Very Ape."

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

penny royal tea isn't a pun

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think his lyrics are especially good though, no.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

He's not as good a lyricist as Rob Halford.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 18 December 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are so bad they're embarassing.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Mole OTM. But then, Kurt wasn't very gay.

Not a bad lyricist by any means, but hardly worthy of the accolades. Always liked "Yes I eat cow I am not proud" tho

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

He wasn't. At all. But I still like the way he sang "Oh well, whatever, never mind."

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I figured the consensus always was that Cobain was a half-wit with a decent grasp of guitar chords.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"Drain You" really has the worst fucking lyrics ever, doesn't it?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana lyrics are more noteworthy for certain phrases than for overall themes. "Load up on guns and bring your friends" is a great way to kick off a tune.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I was just talking about the absolute worthlessness of "Rape Me" ths weekend.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

he shoulda got Courters to write his lyrics

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

He had something that made the lyrics not really matter that much, as do many great artists.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"The lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are so bad they're embarassing."

Sure, like "Louis Louis", "Satisfaction" or "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Them Goodbye".

― earlnash, Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Sha, way more about attitude than substance. Which is really the whole punk/postpunk statement anyway. Kurt doesn't have to be friggin' Yeats to sound damn cool when he says, "daddy's little girl ain't a girl no more."

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i figured he swiped that line from mudhoney

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"smells like teen spirit" has great lyrics!!

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, i thought the penny royal tea/royalty thing was a pun. maybe not. i get the point about lyrics not being everything for *some* artists, but then...it sometimes irks me that people take him seriously.

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Penny Royal Tea refers to an old "home remedy" abortion drink....

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"i’m worst at what I do best / and for this gift I feel blessed" is a pretty loaded little couplet

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the lyrics on Bleach were the best - like roger, I'm thinking "Mr. Moustache", "Floyd the Barber", "daddy's little girl ain't a girl no more", "no recess!" etc. They seemed less about stuff, and stuff. Some of the more intentionally cut-up sounding lines on In Utero are ok in a nice surrealist way too; basically the less you no what he's talking about, the better I think (unless it's the Andy Griffith Show).

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

paul, just out of curiosity, how old are you?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

All the "attitude"/"thing" comments: naturally. But by the end the songs weren't supporting it at all-- "You Know You're Right"? "I Hate Myself and Want to Die"? For me almost everything on In Utero is the sound of a junk-addled creative vacuum choking on its dust filter.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm 29, how come?

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

haha chris ott, meet alex in nyc. alex in nyc, meet chris ott.

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I also can't be completely objective about Nirvana because they meant alot to me during high school, and were sort of an entryway to alot of music I like now, so I probably tend to overromanticize how great they were....

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

massive x-post there.

Well, the Mudhoney line is "sweet young thing ain't sweet no more" right? That's not quite as creepy sounding as "daddy's little girls ain't a girl no more".

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

true

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

paul because i have a funny feeling that cobain's lyrics might seem much more cliched in the shadow of the hundreds of 1-d co-opters that came after him

yes, a lot of it was really trite scribbly grade school nihilism, but i often think that people totally missed cobain's sense of humour and his total luv of wordplay

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

In Utero is sooo fucking awful.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

mark, yeah, i see your point. i liked them ok at the time, but maybe thought that punk bands had some obligation to be political, or at least socially aware, rather than just nihilistic.
and i do think nirvana made the "i'm in so much pain/but i can't say why" linkin park thing ok.

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana is about as good as early Catherine Wheel.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

They are responsible for Emo.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Not at all - totally wrong. Emo was a strong underground phenomenon long before the grunge explosion.

It Utero is not at all awful - it's primal! Also, somewhat uncompromising (woulda been more so had they kept the original mixes but oh well) - I never ever listen to it (may not ever again) but i still like it very much.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"Something in the Way" has great lyrics, but yes many were bad (always hated "Rape Me" too -- actually about half In Utero is juts terrible.)

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Down with Gear!, right here.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Emo is responsible for Nirvana.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

When it came to the lyrics, I always thought that Cobain was just a poor man's Michael Stipe. Especially on Nevermind.

― may pang (maypang), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that Michael Stipe is a lyrical genius either.

― may pang (maypang), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Lyrics don't matter. That's why I like instrumentals the most!

― Aja (aja), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"Nirvana is about as good as early Catherine Wheel."

Jack Rabid to thread. (Personally I think that is crazy talk)

REM started sucking when you could understand what Stipe was saying.

― earlnash, Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Emo is responsible for Nirvana

I don't think that's right either. I think Kurt just made his influences: Meat Puppets, Vaselines, Flipper, Pixies, etc...into something that might feel emo, but I've never heard that he was a big Rites of Spring guy or anthing.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a time when REM didn't suck? How come I don't remember that?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Emo and Nirvana have no relation to each other.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, Catherine Wheel is actually better.

Or at least I listen to them more.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

colin you're messing with our minds!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Pennyroyal Tea" is quite good, at least as far as angsty lyrics go. The images are very original and precise, bitingly ironic and self-aware/self-critical of the narcissism and self-absorption inherent in depression:

I'm on my time with everyone
I have very bad posture

Sit and drink pennyroyal tea
Distill the life that's inside of me
Sit and drink pennyroyal tea
I'm anemic royalty

Give me a Leonard Cohen afterworld
So I can sigh eternally

I'm so tired I can't sleep
I'm a liar and a thief

The one-line chorus "I miss the comfort in being sad" in "Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle" achieves the same thing.

I like the sort of bizarre mood and image of "Something In the Way" too [x-post -> missed Mark Pitchfork's]:

Underneath the bridge
The tarp has sprung a leak
And the animals I've trapped
Have all become my pets
And I'm living off of grass
And the drippings from the ceiling
It's okay to eat fish
'Cause they don't have any feelings

I also always kind of liked "I've got this friend you see/He makes me feel/And I wanted more than I could steal". Mark P is right about "Teen Spirit" too. "With the lights out it's less dangerous/Here we are now/Entertain us" is so familiar that it's easy to forget that it was actually a good couplet. And, yeah, "Load up on drugs (Wasn't it "drugs"?) and bring your friends/It's time to lose and to pretend" was pretty good too. I mean, it is all 'grade-school nihilism' or whatever but by no means was he a bad lyricist on those terms.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just trying to find the right view, Jim surface noise.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 18 December 2003 03:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 29 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

either way, so much indifference & ambiguity and yet still completely parseable and playful and depressing!

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

penny royal tea isn't a pun
yes it is.

How?

Fact checking cuz is right, they wrote the song Penny Royal tea about trying to destroy their popularity after Nevermind to such an extent that no one would buy they record - therefore mot making a penny in royalteas.

― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

royalties - bah!

― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

yes alex we better leave the lyric-writing to true generational voices like van morrison and patti smith

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahahahahahahahaha. Touche!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

At the top of the thread paulbw expresses confusion over the lyrics to "Polly", appparently thinking they're nonsensical. Actually the song is about an actual girl who was kidnapped, raped, and tortured with a blowtorch.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

that still doesn't mean they're any good

― joday (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

heh!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Blah blah blah. Nirvana sucks. blah blah blah. they ripped off the Pixies. blah blah blah. they ripped off a killing joke song. blah blah blah. they're responsible for emo and nu-metal. blah blah blah. nirvana are so overrated. blah blah blah. Their lyrics were simple and dumb, I don't undrstand what the fuss is all about. blah, blah, blah. oh, he did heroin and killed himself, what a loser. blah, blah, blah.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Touched a nerve, have we?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Nirvana, and don't really care if others don't, it's just really boring to see people use the same off-the-shelf criticisms over and over again.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

DAVE MATTHEWS TO THREAD!!!!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Information on the meaning of Pennyroyal Tea (it's not a pun!)

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.14.95/pennyroyal-9550.html

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I may have said this on Nirvana threads before, but I really intend to re-purchase In Utero this time.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 December 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i've always really loved that "blanket acned with cigarette burns" line. it's so visual and it rolls off the tongue just perfectly.

― Felcher (Felcher), Thursday, 18 December 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

You rang?

http://www.mattsmusicpage.com/davematthewsband/8.jpg

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 December 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes I appreciate the sound, weight, and viscerality of words, playing with language, over the promise of a literal "meaning" in song lyrics.

Having not listened to much Nirvana since I was in high school, i quite like a lot of those lines. But I'm also fond of mangled syntax and very dense imagery.

― Blood and sparkles (bloodandsparkles), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't thought much about his words because they aren't particularly useful for me, and, o. nate otm, I think I get him via his voice. There's stuff there that's cringeworthy, but I think he knew that and at least on Nevermind there's humor to go along with it. But mark p's analysis up there I had totally missed until now, so maybe it's worth investigating further. Anyway, this is pretty great:

I love myself better than you
I know it's wrong so what should I do?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 18 December 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

penny royal tea is a pun regardless of that link, Matt. there may be some other story going on as well but its also a pun for the reasons factcheck and i went into above.

― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 18 December 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are so bad they're embarassing.

Have you heard the Pansy Division cover version, "Smells Like Queer Spirit?" The lyrics are a vast improvement.

― Ben Dot (1977), Friday, 19 December 2003 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I may have said this on Nirvana threads before, but I really intend to re-purchase In Utero this time.
-- Jordan (jordancohe...), December 18th, 2003.

you need to pick it up only if its just for radio friendly unit shifter.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Vic, that did occur to me but I wasn't sure what the right term was so I left it in.

At the time, I sort of assumed that the mosquito/libido thing had something to do with the still-dying-out myth that AIDS could be spread by mosquitos. Don't know if there's anything to that though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

the comparison to michael stipe is right, they were genius' before anyone could actually make out the words or worse yet when a lyric sheet appeared then we all realized it was nonsense.

― keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 19 December 2003 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt Cobain was not a very good lyricist, yes. He had a more melodic ulcer than most, though.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 19 December 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drd500/d513/d51379c7rkb.jpg

It's on again!

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 20 December 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

"One more special message to go/then I'm done, and I can go home"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Saturday, 20 December 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I like that song for some weird reason.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 20 December 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Right!

― the pinefox, Saturday, 20 December 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"married: buried"

how great is that?

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 20 December 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

At the time, I sort of assumed that the mosquito/libido thing had something to do with the still-dying-out myth that AIDS could be spread by mosquitos.

Me too. Especially since the "I feel stupid and contagious" line sounds like a guy complaining about having to wear a condom. (And possibly even "With the lights out it's less dangerous", although who ever thought that AIDS couldn't be transmitted in the dark?)

― The Yellow Kid, Sunday, 21 December 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Kurt Cobain was the best man who ever waslked the earth and his lyrics were genious! If any one has something other to say, then F*** YOU!!!!!!!

― Nirvana Freak, Thursday, 18 March 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

You could have just said "revive" you know...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 18 March 2004 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

To all those who had posted a negative comment on KurtCobain, I say:
y the Fu-- dont u try to create somethin NEW concernin music, just like he did. and the Gays who had posted a negative comment on his lyrics:
if u read between the lines of Kurt's lyrics, u wouldn't have even opened, ur damn mutha fuckin mouth to say any fucked up comment abt his lyrics, btw, y da fuck dontu try to come out wit better lyrics ya sluts, u noe wht, he wrote a song about u, called In bloom, if u can read "he is the one who likes all our pretty songs... but he knows not wht it means" so FUCK UP

― Mr. Fox Da Fox, Saturday, 20 March 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Portray sincerity
Act out of loyalty
Defend your true country
Wish away the pain
Hand out lobotomies
To save little families
Surrealistic fantasy
Bland boring plain

Hold me down in restitution
Living out your date with fusion
Is the whole fleece shun in master?
Don't feel guilty, master writing

Somebody said that they're not much like I am
I know I can
Make enough of the words for you to follow along
I sink and then some

If that's not a big freakin' festival of lyrical shaftery then I'm one of the bits of his head that hit the sink.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 20 March 2004 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

To all those who had posted a negative comment on KurtCobain, I say:
y the Fu-- dont u try to create somethin NEW concernin music, just like he did.

There was PRECIOUS LITTLE "new" about what Nirvana was doing.

and the Gays who had posted a negative comment on his lyrics:

And in one single phrase, you just SHAT all over everything Kurt was fighting for. Nicely done, idiot boy.

In bloom, if u can read "he is the one who likes all our pretty songs... but he knows not wht it means" so FUCK UP

Mr.Pot? Call on line one from a Mr.Kettle.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 20 March 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Lynskey, that song whose lyrics you quoted, "Downer", is one of Nirvana's very first songs. I don't think it's fair to judge Cobain's overall lyrical ability by one of his earliest efforts.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 20 March 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, use some other songs of his as well.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 20 March 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

And anyway, it doesn't have to be iambic fucking pentameter to be a great lyric. I defy anyone to listen to "Sliver" and not walk around for hours with "Gramma take me home" running like a hamster on a wheel inside your head.

And of course, the lyrics were never the real point, as others have said.

― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 20 March 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok I'm one of the bits of his head that hit the ceiling then. One of the bits thats still stuck there.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 20 March 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt was a great song writer look at all apologies,dumb,and heat shaped box just to name a few.

― kurt kicks ass, Sunday, 21 March 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

don't you think that if kurt was alive he would be fucking EMBARASSED by/for courtney love? why doesn't she ever think of that before getting an extreme makeover and looking scary or getting all high on a plane and garbling nonsense to anyone with a camera?

― scout, Monday, 22 March 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

not to change the subject.

― scout, Monday, 22 March 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

What's with all the fake googlers these days???

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 22 March 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

("these days")

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 22 March 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

how can you be a "fake googler"... there is no fake way to use google.

― scout, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

u don´t know what music is all about .....ignorants......

― faride mereb, Saturday, 3 April 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

they have no clue

― kurt kicks ass, Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

morans

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

best little googler couplet evah

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

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