"Their early stuff was better"

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Is this generally true? Why?

― man, Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Everybody runs out of steam eventually.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Because a band usually has 25 years before they make their debut album, and eighteen months before they make their second.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Funny how this works, cos in visual art and architecture the best stuff generally comes much much later on.

― neil simpson (neil simpson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Because bands get signed when they're good, and most often they don't improve.

― Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've been thinking a lot about why it happens, as I noticed that more than 80% of the artists in my collection peaked with their debut (or even demo!). Couldn't think of any good theory though.

― Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've found that in my formative years I used to hate statements like this. Bands like Pavement everyone would bang on about Slanted & Enchanted while I preferred later albums. Now I find myself agreeing with the rule more and more in other cases.

― dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Portishead to thread!

― neil simpson (neil simpson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

old people suck, that's why.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

There might be differences from genre to genre, I guess.

― man, Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've always wondered if, for a lot of bands, the work that goes into the debut is galvanized by the need to prove the band's legitimacy. Then once that's done, and they are a Band with an Album, their reason for rocking is removed.

― otto, Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Good question. Before I answer, can I add a couple of supplementary related ones of my own?

For those who do think this is generally true:

- do you think it's equally true regardless of whether the first thing you personally heard / bought by a particular bands / artist was actually their first recording or whether you discovered them later in their career and worked backwards?

- do you think it's just as true of bands / artists back in the (say) 60's, 70's and '80's as it is of more recent ones?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 18 December 2003 16:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is entirely wrong and fallacious.

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 18 December 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Bands for whom this is not true (in my opinion, of course:
- Japan
- Beastie Boys
- Mr.Bungle
- The Cure
- Depeche Mode
- Soundgarden

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

More bands/artists for whom this is not true:

- Beach boys
- Beatles
- Marvin Gaye
- Stevie Wonder
- Cocteau twins
- David Bowie (The Laughing Gnome anyone?)
- Everything but the girl
- Almost any classical composer - especially Beethoven
- Almost any jazz musician you can think of

I think that's the art connection (se previous post).
If you're making arty music (jazz, classical, experimental)
this rule does somehow not apply.

I have no clue as to why though

― Jim Janse, Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

not true: american music club

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's not like music is gymnastics, where you're physiologically unable to GET THE JOB DONE if you're older than a mayfly,

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

mathematicians are washed up at 30, or so were lead to believe

― kevin brady (groeuvre), Thursday, 18 December 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is so not true. most people use the "their early stuff was better" line to show how hip they are for having been into the band long before they broke, and now that everyone knows about them, they dont feel as special for liking their recent stuff, so they condemn it to seem like they're somehow above everyone else.
i've got a friend named kevin brady... good name

― Felcher (Felcher), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

I believe it's a combination of having your whole life to make your first album and 18 months to make your second, and the fact that the songs on your first album are based on real life, while on your second album you've just lived a completely alien existence for those 18 months.

As Jerry Seinfeld put it, "Once you become a famous comedian you don't wait in line at the post office anymore."

Of course, this isn't true for everyone, but for those to whom it applies, I think those are the reasons.

― Rick Massimo, Friday, 19 December 2003 01:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

As Jerry Seinfeld put it, "Once you become a famous comedian you don't wait in line at the post office anymore."

what a dick he is.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

How does that line make him a dick? It's a reasonable point about the difficulty of doing his brand of "observational comedy" once you're rich and famous, like him.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

You don't have to wait in line if u make some Hispanic domestic do it for you

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

Uh huh, that's what he said.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Beastie Boys have gotten better?

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is so not true. most people use the "their early stuff was better" line to show how hip they are

Yeah that's what everybody always says. But at the end of the day, most canonical artists ARE remembered for their early material.

― Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 19 December 2003 08:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

not true for radiohead and yo la tengo but true for most bands.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 19 December 2003 09:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, but Siegbran you were saying "Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk" was a poor effort. I'd say this is utter snobbery ;-)

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 19 December 2003 09:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

the boo radleys - are a bizarre case; giant steps was their pinnacle of experimental genius. they followed with a pop album. then they went all screwy trying to be progressive and pop and by the time they solved their identity crisis - nobody cared adn they broke up - leaving martin carr to be the tuneless dirge that is brave captain.

― griffin doome, Friday, 19 December 2003 10:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

SCOTT WALKER

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 19 December 2003 10:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, but Siegbran you were saying "Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk" was a poor effort. I'd say this is utter snobbery ;-)

I've got good reasons for that!!! (vocals, mix, drumming). Real snobs prefer the demo & EP anyway.

― Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 19 December 2003 10:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah,like this thread is going anywhere...

*pictures massive system in which bands are sorted by which of their albums was their best*

*pictures the "Best album of every artist ever" thread*

*smiles*

― Jole, Friday, 19 December 2003 10:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hmm, my intuitive feeling is that most of my favourite artists peaked around the time of their 3rd album, having by that time grown out of their obvious influences and come with something truly their own. When I wanna discover an artist I know very little about, that's usually the album I go for
Obviously, this is very far from being a universal rule (e.g. Ride completely disproves this theory..)

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Friday, 19 December 2003 10:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

wagner peaked around his third album def

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 19 December 2003 10:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

PULP!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 19 December 2003 11:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

obv. Joni destroys all this

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Friday, 19 December 2003 11:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

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