goth-metal crunk?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I've been trying to do some blog-writing over the past couple days about some of my favorite-but-not-top-ten albums of '03 and I've come to the odd feeling that David Banner, Bone Crusher and Killer Mike all (both in their distinct ways and as a collective segment of the crunk scene) have this vague but tangible undercurrent of stoner thrash bloodletting -- the minor-key menace, the uptempo rhythms coupled with dirge/doom melodies, the gravelly "HRUARARHGHGHHHHH" tone to the first twos' voices (subtle in Banner, at the forefront in Bone Crusher) and the more obvious references and sonic touchstones from Killer Mike ("Rap Is Dead", "Hard Nard").

And yeah, I bet this same question was probably asked first about three or four years ago vis a vis DMX. Or ten years ago about Body Count. It just seems a lot subtler and trickier in the crunk MCs.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I think maybe a root of some of this stuff was NWA's Efil4zaggin...that had alot of parts that were really doomy and goth, if not as aggro and heavy as crunk...but I'd bet alot of those crunk rappers were big NWA guys...

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Frank Kogan on Youngbloodz, recently in the Voice: "the accompaniment uses crunk's typically gorgeous minor-key motifs (there's as much of this Euroromanticism in Southern hip-hop as in dark metal, though with more of a suspense-movie feel, uneasy anticipation rather than the trudge through the sludge)."

And in a short review also in the Voice a couple weeks ago, I compared Banner's screwed and chopped slowdown of crunk to what Black Sabbath did to rock in 1970.

Where the goth thing is even MORE blatant, though, is in the Ying Yang Twins and Banner Christmas songs on *Crunk and Disorderly."

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Most popular goth-rap hit ever, though, might still be "Gansta's Paradise" by Coolio....

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"Gangsta's Paradise," I meant, obviously. (And the screwed and chopped slowdown, of course, belongs to Michael Watts at least as much as to Banner himself.)

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

wow. I actually just pulled out NWA's Greatest Hits and Real Ni99az Don't Die is sooo goth metal...that crawling descending fuzz guitar riff, with horror movie church bells....

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Thing is, remember, those gloomy sounds actually existed in plenty of other music (Yardbirds, Jacksons, disco) long before dark metal ever existed. (And "Cry Me a River" by Justin Timberlake sounds probably as dark metal as any Southern hip-hop, when you get down to it.)

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I could see alot of rap's goth type roots also coming from european disco minor key strings too...

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

or, maybe just alot of rappers like metal, which is very possible

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Gangsta's Paradise

Perhaps Stevie Wonder is the hidden link between rap and goth?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

One big blatant Eurodisco influence on Scandinavian dark metal is Enigma (aka Michael Cretu), who I hear as much as Kate Bush or the Swans or Joy Division in Tiamat/Therion/Moonspell/Gathering stuff.(Though then again, lotsa Eurodisco minor keys probably were inspired by Sabbath/Uriah Heap/etc. --who obviously WERE dark metal, in their own way -- in the FIRST place, so what comes around goes around.)

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

probably half the reason i ever liked wu/rza, cypress hill, gravediggaz, and the tales from the hood soundtrack was the horrormetal vibe. okay, maybe more than half.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 18 December 2003 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Eminem to thread.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 December 2003 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Geto Boys' graphic dismemberment fantasies to thread.

But as with lots about modern hip-hop, I raise my guns to Jamaican dancehall artists for bringing the fear. "Wicked, man," ya know?

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 18 December 2003 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

A lot of the tracks on Crunk & Disorderly sounded like Witchman to me.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 18 December 2003 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...

The gothic or dark theme has spawned an entire subculture in Rap music. The crunk phenomenon came out of Three 6 Mafia (formerly 666 mafia) before Lil Job or David Banner capitolized on it. Three 6 Mafia, as well as many other memphis artists did minor keyed horror raps before they got big.

Other originators include Ganksta NIP, the "South Park Psycho" from Houston, Texas (who was closely associated with the Geto Boys) and Esham "The Unholy" from Detroit, who created a large underground cult following with his satanic raps (and use of heavy metal samples in his music). Several years later the Gravediggaz came out of New York.

There is a name for the style, "Horrorcore". Unfortunately due to the unmarketability of the style (with it's extreme subjects), most artists within the subgenre have not attained any mainstream success.

The southern crunk movement is the closest thing on the large scale market right now, and if you listen to the progression starting with Three 6 Mafia's "Mystic Styles" album, you will see where the style got it's roots.

― Elijah Hamilton, Thursday, 6 May 2004 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)

This is just a theory, feel free to tear me down, haha...but isn't it possible you guys are just imposing influences that you are more familiar with in order to describe music you're beginning to engage with? Unless you guys are just saying that there's a parallel. But i seriously doubt 3-6 are influenced by Doom metal.

― djdee2005, Thursday, 6 May 2004 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think anyone on the thread is saying that - but yes the parallel is there.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 6 May 2004 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

ahh fair enough.

― djdee2005, Thursday, 6 May 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

if i may: ying yang twins "alley" (the track, not the album)

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.