ILM Politics

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What are the politics around here? Would you say there is any sort of unified views? I would think most of this board is left-leaning, as can be clearly seen in any debate on race or gender (or the fact that it's always debated, always). But then, it can't be some sort of overriding leftism to the point where it's anti-corporate, because there's a huge support of the teenpop, hip hop, mainstream acts that are generally derided by your average class-warrior.

Personally, I'm very left leaning, although voting wise it's usually independents.

NOW YOU GO

― David Allen, Sunday, 21 December 2003 07:53 (twenty-two years ago)

We all agree that freedom of speech/the press is good, don't we?

I, personally, am into civil rights, socialized healthcare and not bombing the shit out of people.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Sunday, 21 December 2003 07:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I like to tell people that I am going to vote for Bush next November.

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Sunday, 21 December 2003 08:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Tell them you voted for him last time too

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 21 December 2003 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm leftwing despite the fact that most of the people I encounter on this side of the political spectrum tend to be humourless killjoy fuckwads.

― may pang (maypang), Sunday, 21 December 2003 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I tell people I plan on voting...

but then I never do.

― Your Full Name, Sunday, 21 December 2003 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm right but left.

― Debito (Debito), Sunday, 21 December 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Or should that be 'left but right'?

― Debito (Debito), Sunday, 21 December 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, 'left and right'

― Debito (Debito), Sunday, 21 December 2003 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a folksinger who champions unemployed web workers and crusades at every opportnity to present the homosexual lifestyle as a valid alternative.

― Momus (Momus), Sunday, 21 December 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

fascist pig!

― zappi (joni), Sunday, 21 December 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I consider mice elf a centrist, with almost everyone else to the right of me.

― peepee (peepee), Sunday, 21 December 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/bookstore/music/pop/eminem.html

I'm actually libertarian. I'd guess that anyone from the right on this board would also be, rather than "mainstream" Republican.

― DougD, Sunday, 21 December 2003 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Burn Down the House of Commons in your Brand New Shoes!

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 21 December 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the reviews on that maoist site are hilarious, they all devolve into big heavy handed advertisements for their group. i love college communist groups and their subsequent newspapers.

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Skeptical leftist whose only interest in communism extends to the aesthetics of their propaganda posters and figures most hippies could stand to listen to some crunk every so often. Thinks most anticonsumerist types (i.e. Adbusters) and Critical Mass would be more appealing if they actually took things like general human nature and the average person's intelligence into perspective and stopped acting like such smug assholes. Likes Michael Moore, but wishes he wouldn't resort to misleading statistics and juxtapositions and the occasional lie lie lie and also strove to bring his books back to a 4:1 humor:bitter rabblerousing ratio. Thinks This Modern World is funnier than The Boondocks. Is more annoyed with uncouth extremist screamers on the left than reasonable, calm and empathetic people on the right. Realizes that the latter category is pretty damned rare.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, certainly 'left-leaning' on many fronts... though I'm more of the libertarian strand of the left than the statist, centralised sort, although certain elements of that I would uphold.

In U.S. terms, I would probably come across as overwhelmingly to the left, but that country is absurdly right-slanted at large... My views would possibly seem socialism-inflected, but only to be expected as our country does have more of a public ethos about things like education and health. Howard Dean seems the pick of the Democratic field - a genuinely cutting, no-nonsense figure in contrast to GWB and also the familiar styles of Lieberman, Gephardt and Kerry. Whether he is likely to carry a groundswell of public support might well depend on how they feel towards the incumbent. I find it appalling to countenance that they may genuinely feel he's done a good job as President. But views differ and the media is outrageous in the USA... Dean seems rather the anti-Dubya, which ought to be a good thing yet all depends on how GWB is seen; in almost all regards Dean is the better qualified candidate than Bush: less showy and false-feelgood-generating... more likely to look the issues in the face and offer honest explanations. But is that what Americans want really...?

Being Britain-centric, I would bracket myself as a natural supporter of the Labour Party, yet ever since 1997 really, I have felt increasingly on a different planet to the way New Labour have governed. The LibDems are the only major party who I could bring myself to vote for at the moment - and even they with great reservations. I would probably place myself on the outer fringes of the current Labour Party, or rather if it were the mid-70s, on the Labour Right of then. Things have shifted so much. I bet in some ways I'd have been tempted by the SDP in 1983 if I'd been around and of voting age then... I even have sympathies with Conservatism in its more jocular, High Toryist moderate hue - which was of course all but erradicated by Mrs Thatcher.

The important battles for libertarian social policy have been hotting up; the UK really is a country divided deeply on many issues. Yet politics isn't bringing the arguments to the surface as of yet...

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I consider myself a socialist, though I've begun to weigh up the pros of Marxism recently.

― C-Man (C-Man), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

are there any anarchists on the board? I'm not, but i'm curious about the movement in other places

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

like this http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/index.jpg

not like this http://www.cht.qc.ca/cht/images/rotten.jpg

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Feel free to parse my voting record:

1992 - Ross Perot
1996 - Bob Dole
2000 - Ralph Nader
2004 - hoping for Howard Dean

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 21 December 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Anarchist Buddhist.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Or Radical Marxist.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Or Moderate Conservative.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Depends how I feel and if I like you.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Although I vote Lib Dem, but I think this is mostly because I know most of the local candidates/counsellors and they are good people who like real ale.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha I just realized from this thread that the "left behind" series is based on a terrible pun!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I follow the politics of the funk.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I just got in a big ol' stroppy debate on the Gathering (the Killing Joke list) because of some passing, derisive jibes I made about Evanesence (I said they were immediately moot given their connections to the genre of "Christian Rock"). Out of nowhere I was suddenly branded some sort've hateful demagogue......and, once again, this is on the KILLING JOKE list....by a reformed Evangelical Christian (or, as he insists on spelling it, 'Xtian') My point is that you never can tell. I would've normally presumed that to be an ardent enough fan of Killing Joke to be a member of the Gathering, you'd have to have a pretty healthy disdain for organized religion. Well, colour me wrong.

In any event, I'm myself lean well towards the left in most political matters.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Fairly right wing, but usually conflicted. Life member of the NRA who opposes animal testing on any level whatsoever. Fervent opposer of the death penalty but pretty much pro-life (but anti-church). Hate the fuck out of Bush, of course, but dig on Militia of Montana founder John Trochmann. Have squatted and protested.

Consider me a wingless extremist.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 21 December 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i've gotten a reputation for being a stalwart Clintonite. i voted for Gore in 2000, i still believe that he was the best qualified person to run for President since Truman, and if he were running in 2004 he'd have my support. since he isn't, i am supporting Howard Dean.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, i consider myself a "radical moderate." i don't want Bushco or Hempco (i.e., no Nader) running the country.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

libertarian socialist.

― charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm unsurprised.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Dean too, so far.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like Dean if he would cut out that "I'm a fiscal conservative," pandering crap.

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you brits mean when they say libertarian? in the US it = crazy

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Centre-ish.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Libertarian in the UK means like a librarian but able to eat fish.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 21 December 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it meant fan of the libertines?

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 21 December 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a librarian but a vegetarian what does that make me?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 21 December 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

a sissy

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 21 December 2003 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Socialist inflected with postmodernism, or vice versa.

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Sunday, 21 December 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hey charlton! email me or something.

i'm similar to charlton, i.e. i'm an anarchistic unionist. however that's only on sundays. mondays i'm a capitalist; tuesdays, wednesdays i might as well be a feudalist; thursdays i'm a leninist, and friday i'm in love, aw

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 21 December 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you brits mean when they say libertarian? in the US it = crazy
-- Sonny A. (newaddres...), December 21st, 2003.

Not really. I've only heard the American libertarianism explained to me, and it sounded pretty reasonable for about 90% of their views. But there is 10% where they take everything a little too far.

― David Allen, Sunday, 21 December 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

88: Dukakis
92: Clinton
96: Nader
00: Gore

― Mark (MarkR), Sunday, 21 December 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

But nobody agrees on what constitutes that 90%, and most everyone agrees they're a little cuckoo

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 21 December 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

libertarian socialist, but I can't stand most leftists of the hating-fun Granola Mafia sort.

My voting patterns tend to go through the third-parties I can respect first (Greens>SPUSA>Libertarians if all else fails) or a Democrat if he/she has a chance to win and the Republican opponent is hard-right.

Under no circumstances will I vote for a Republican, unless running against Ron Kirk or Tony Sanchez (who just about made me swear to never vote for a Democrat again).

I voted for Nader in 2000, voted for third-parties in 2002, will likely vote for Al Sharpton in the Texas primaries and some third-party candidate in the generals.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 21 December 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Marxist, 'cos I like the Gang of Four

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 21 December 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I vote however Saturn votes.

― jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 21 December 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a social democrat who ain't afraid of a little fiscal conservatism now and again.

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Sunday, 21 December 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I am your neighbour , lend me some sugar...

― blue, Sunday, 21 December 2003 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

But then, it can't be some sort of overriding leftism to the point where it's anti-corporate, because there's a huge support of the teenpop, hip hop, mainstream acts that are generally derided by your average class-warrior.

Politics and music don't mix anyway. Personally I may be kind of "left leaning" in my rather harsh view upon the corporate elements of such music, on the other hand I may be seen as "right leaning" from the fact that my musical "canon" consists of almost entirely white acts, and the fact that I clearly prefer to judge all music from traditional European musical values such as melody and harmony.

But this only proves my point, that music and politics don't mix. Music doesn't have a political side.

As for you question, I do have the impression that the majority of the membership is left-leaning. I mean, just the fact that you may criticize Bush and the Iraqui war without having about 10 deeply insulted Americans responding to your comment proves that ILx is pretty much left-leaning - particularly when compared to much American net regulars.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 22 December 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

apathy is my party politic.

― griffin doome, Monday, 22 December 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

possible to have tastes which don't theoretically "fit" with your politics at all, Geir; nobody doubts that, I am as good an example as any. where people criticise you is when you claim that there is *nothing political at all* about the idea that "London isn't British any more" simply because you initially said it in a musical context regarding So Solid Crew etc. if you had lived in Britain you'd know the *exceptional* political heat on such a statement over here, heat which may not be obvious or clear in Norway.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 22 December 2003 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

If I was an American I probably would have voted for Nader. Or maybe I would have voted for Gore just to avoid Bush. I dunno.

In Norway I am a social democratic voter. Always.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 22 December 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm an anarchist. also i said "who cares who killed jfk , just so long as he's dead" but i was sort of joking, sort of.

― duane, Monday, 22 December 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

another vote for saturn.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 22 December 2003 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I notice you dodged my point, Geir.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 22 December 2003 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Public Enemy to thread.

― Andrew (enneff), Monday, 22 December 2003 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Skeptical leftist whose only interest in communism extends to the aesthetics of their propaganda posters and figures most hippies could stand to listen to some crunk every so often. Thinks most anticonsumerist types (i.e. Adbusters) and Critical Mass would be more appealing if they actually took things like general human nature and the average person's intelligence into perspective and stopped acting like such smug assholes. Likes Michael Moore, but wishes he wouldn't resort to misleading statistics and juxtapositions and the occasional lie lie lie and also strove to bring his books back to a 4:1 humor:bitter rabblerousing ratio. Thinks This Modern World is funnier than The Boondocks. Is more annoyed with uncouth extremist screamers on the left than reasonable, calm and empathetic people on the right. Realizes that the latter category is pretty damned rare.

Nate OTM

― Ben Dot (1977), Monday, 22 December 2003 03:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a calm and empathetic person on the right.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 22 December 2003 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

oops, forgot reasonable.

― A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 22 December 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the right usually does ;-)

― Ben Dot (1977), Monday, 22 December 2003 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

If I was an American I probably would have voted for Nader.

i'm not surprised, seeing how overwhelmingly white nader's supporters were (not to mention overwhelmingly whitebread). though even the dumbest naderite wouldn't have been so dumb as to post an ebonics version of dr. king's "i have a dream" speech (shit, even the dumbest republican wouldn't be so dumb).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 22 December 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the original post said-

"it can't be some sort of overriding leftism to the point where it's anti-corporate, because there's a huge support of the teenpop, hip hop, mainstream acts that are generally derided by your average class-warrior"

Lots of anti-corporate people like Madonna, Duran Duran, etc. I don't think music is a product that can easily be a foundation for unionizing or collectivism so do the politics have to mean much? Why only appreciate art you already know is "safe" for you? I buy all music used or steal it, so I don't care how it gets made anyways, as long as it sounds good.

I like Duran Duran and Gang of Four, read Marx and socialist-libertarian stuff, don't like PC-ism, try to avoid paying for as much stuff as I can, do protesting and commune living, and haven't voted yet, whatever that means.

― sucka (sucka), Monday, 22 December 2003 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a futurist. This is me:

http://www.portlandartmuseum.org/artwork/exhibitions/kandinsky/catalog/medium/futurist%20portrait.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 22 December 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought of ILM's politics as a perfect extension of its tastes.. populism is a big part of liberal politics.. If there's one thing Sterling knows better than Britney records its Marxist philosophy...Pop music is real because real people like it.. etc etc

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 22 December 2003 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

No, pop music is real because it exists to the chagrin of many elitists.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 22 December 2003 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Sonny OTM. other forums which are more sceptical of chartpop have a good few puritan socialists around.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 22 December 2003 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Pop music is real because real people like it

Fuck that, everyone else in the universe who isn't me is completely fake and dances due to my puppet strings. POP MUSIC IS THE TOOL OF THE NEW INQUISITION. Or not.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 December 2003 06:26 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry ned -- according to the presented theory, you are a simulation.

beep

syntax error

goto line 56

beep

whirr

*program terminated*

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 22 December 2003 07:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Sez Jack's Apple IIe.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 22 December 2003 07:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Surprised to see so many Dean supporters here. I'd have thought that ILMers would see through the bullshit. He seems like a lying scumbag to me. Not much better than Bush. I'd pick almost any other Democrat right now over Dean. If Kucinich didn't have such a goofball presence, he actually has some good ideas...

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 22 December 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

kucinich's website is great, he's recently boasted of the endorsement of all the animals in the forest. i am still waiting for the detailed plan concerning the department of peace. i think dean might be in serious trouble especially with the new republic now talking about him running as a third party candidate. his temperament is all wrong for a centrist run and if he stays as far left as he is now he hasn't a chance. his quitting the episcopalians over a bike path is genius stuff, obviously the man has principles.

― keith m (keithmcl), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

haha sonny i went googling for the relevant quote and up came a fucking blogger questionare from 1865!! this is hilarious. anyway the last bit is the relevant part. (full text here: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/04/01.htm)

The poet you like best	Aeschylus, Shakespeare	Dante, Aeschylus, Shakespeare, Goethe
The prose writer you like best	Diderot	Diderot, Lessing, Hegel, Balsac
Your favourite flower	Daphne	Laurel
Your favourite dish	Fish
Your Maxim	Nihil humani a me alienum puto [Nothing human is alien to me]

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Sterling, you're favorite dish is the same as Rakim's!

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

That's actually Karl Marx's favorite dish, not Sterling's.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 23 December 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know shit about politics!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

index -- middle -- pinky down -- ring tucked -- invert -- "gigantic grandfather / jehovah-bearded / on brown daguerrotypes" --- free pimp c - free z-ro - free yayo - free project pat.

― cloverlandthug, Wednesday, 24 December 2003 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

'92 Clinton
'96 Nader
'00 Nader

In my naivete I wanted to see another political party in the U.S. receive substantial campaign financing from the government. This happens when a certain percentage of the population votes for a third party. I stood by that thinking for two elections. It didn't work. I still think we need more options.

I'm intrigued by Howard Dean, M.D. because he seems to inspire people to want to do something. When was the last time people have been this pumped up about a candidate? Not in my lifetime.

― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I only vote third party, usually Green or Libertarian.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

How much of the pumping up is Dean and how much is "he doesn't like Bush!" though?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Very non-political, but tend not to hang with many conservatives.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Skeptical leftist whose only interest in communism extends to the aesthetics of their propaganda posters and figures most hippies could stand to listen to some crunk every so often. Thinks most anticonsumerist types (i.e. Adbusters) and Critical Mass would be more appealing if they actually took things like general human nature and the average person's intelligence into perspective and stopped acting like such smug assholes. Likes Michael Moore, but wishes he wouldn't resort to misleading statistics and juxtapositions and the occasional lie lie lie and also strove to bring his books back to a 4:1 humor:bitter rabblerousing ratio. Thinks This Modern World is funnier than The Boondocks. Is more annoyed with uncouth extremist screamers on the left than reasonable, calm and empathetic people on the right. Realizes that the latter category is pretty damned rare.
You are my CLONE. Two of us is a conspirisy.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Thursday, 25 December 2003 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

yes leftist, but hate leftists...

buoyed by the fact that the greatest revolutionary is organizing as we speak...

go to nyc chinatown, and you shall find...

― pheNAM (pheNAM), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only been old enough for one general election in 2001 and I voted LibDem, although it matters not one jot as North East Hampshire is about the safest Tory seat in the country. LibDem are the second party there so I figured I'd boost the competition, plus I quite liked some of their policies. My political interests have somewhat dimmed since those days of leftist naivity.

― Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Dave 225's post concerning Dean. He's put me off ever since that confederate flag comment. And i'm becoming increasingly convinced that America's 2 party sytem will be the death of us, so i tend to go with the 3rd parties.

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

it seems pretty obv that what Dean meant by his flag comment was that the Democratic Party needs to reach out to poor rural whites, as they haven't done - I'm surprised you didn't "see thru the bullshit" that got spun about it, Felcher

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Right, not "it's ok if states secede/I like racism." I'm w/ Tracer that whole thing was a ridiculous effort for all Dean-opposed to make something small into something huge.

― scott m (mcd), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

That whole Dean/confederate flag flap was such a non-issue manufactured media hit kind of thing. As if it is even remotely related to any actual issues a president would need to deal with. It has nothing to do with a specific policy or program - and the accusation is that, what, Dean is a segregationist? A racist apologist? It's just ridiculous.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I know!

― scott m (mcd), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Agree with what was said upthread about Adbusters, I used to be a subscriber but their high-horse attitude turned me right off in the end. The last straw was a piece they did about graphic design, I just failed to see the evil in some Gillette razor blade packaging but they displayed some at full page size as if it was a sign of the apocalypse.

And as a smoker their hard-on for all things Phillip Morris got on my tits.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Just for the record, I don't hold the flag comment against him. I just think he's a used car salesman like Bush.

Google search on "Howard Dean Liar" or "Howard Dean Contradiction"

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm w/ Tracer that whole thing was a ridiculous effort for all Dean-opposed to make something small into something huge.

the foregoing is a pretty good description of how farcical the Lieberman and Kerry campaigns have become. to think, that these two clowns were thought of as being front-runners at some point!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't hold the flag comment against him because i think he's a racist.i get the point that he was trying to make, but the way it came out of his mouth couldn't help but remind me of bushspeak. i agree that the press backlash for that incident and the war waged against him by other democractic candidates are fairly pathetic, but it doesn't change the fact that his campaign strategy seems to dictate that he jump on whichever side of the fence that will get him the most votes on a given day.

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Case in point:

"Mr. Dean, the candidate stuck with the label (or libel) of being the most secularist Democratic aspirant, seems to be heeding the advice to get religion. He recently informed an Iowa audience that he prays daily, and in New Hampshire last week, he demonstrated his ecumenism by using the Muslim expression "inshallah," which means God willing. "
(-SUSAN JACOBY, NY Times)

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 8 January 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

dave225 said:
If Kucinich didn't have such a goofball presence, he actually has some good ideas...

To which I respond:
"To enable the goddess of peace to encircle within her arms all the
children of this country and all the children of the world."
-- Dennis Kucinich, on why he's running for pres., New York Times, 10/14

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 8 January 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't know Kucinich was a feminist pacifist polytheist.

― Michael Patrick Brady (Michael Patrick Brady), Thursday, 8 January 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The worst kind, really...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 8 January 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

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