Japanoise - Pointless or Pathetic?

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'Cosmic Kurushi Monsters' in the CD player for the first time in months, I'm expecting a familiar funhouse ride through a manic cartoon cut-up whizbang pachinko world, and...well, with the (big) exception of Keiji Haino, it all sounded a bit dated. Or rather, an artifact of a dated subculture, in the way that Mike Flowers Pops is and Esqiuivel isn't. To redefine 'pointlessness' by inverting the old saw re Wagner - this stuff sounds better than it actually is. What it is = hundreds of source materials all stuck together, Meccano-style, with as little subtext or connection-to-anything-outside-itself ('resonance'?) as J-pop. Sure, throwing the Tony Williams Lifetime, 'Lumpy Gravy', PFM, the MC5 and the Shaggs into a giant blender and speeding the result up to 78 rpm is funny once, but it seems like nothing more than a mathematical accumulation of influences, closer to Beck than to Zorn, and doesn't that say something about fans of this genre? (Or, the more different elements are frantically crammed into the same record, the more everything starts sounding the same.)

See, I get the feeling that the J-noise mob doesn't really have any idea what they're doing, or care - if 'Wire' had Travis on the cover, suddenly singalong MOR pablum would just be thrown into the J-noise mix, and be extolled by smart critics as a 'clever recontextualiztion'. (But that's part of the 'charm' of world-pop isn't it, people using foreign signifiers in a way they don't understand?) Even the 'wacky' names of these groups (Boredoms, Bloodthirsty Butchers, etc) seem like somebody's lost-in-translation attempt to appear like somebody else's idea of presentation, rather than any comment on same, much like those 'hilarious' mistranslations on their denim jackets.

So am I just a Nippophobe ("They just copy stuff without understanding it"), or are those who extoll Melt Banana but disdain Slipknot guilty of 'orientalism'? Is there really anything 'there' in this genre, or is it the biggest unintentional con job in fringe music circles? (That being said, I still like Musica Transonic. The stuff that sounds like Tony Williams Lifetime in a giant blender.)

― dave q, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The thing with CKM is that it mixes perhaps too much up - you get the free rock stuff and the chop-up stuff all together, when they're not really part of the same 'movement' except in the sense that they're 'weird' stuff from Japan. Otomo Yoshihide is greater the further away from Zornisms he gets, Omoide Hatoba is fun, Melt-Banana I can't stand, the Boredoms seemed to me better the more straightforward they got. But the music that always appealed to me on that comp was the heavy flowing rock - I've no idea why it sounded different from Western heavy rock, cause I'm no musician myself, but it certainly did sound different.

I think the impulse behind the blender music was in many ways just to make a nasty racket and have fun with it - using pre-existing forms needn't always be a process of conscious and intentioned 'recontextualisation' surely?

― Tom, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been buying mostly Haino's stuff at the moment to really comment. But like every genre 99% of it is rubbish. I've heard some acid mothers temple and that makes me yawn (but i'll probably have to try some other time, I guess). Boredoms= got 'creation vision' and it isn't noise at all, more to do with krautrock, really.

Stuff like melt banana (bubllegum pop version of napalm death) and masonna and merzbow must make you ask- what's the point? but that crowd get brownie points for commitment to it (though it wouldn't make me buy it really). So many bands in the west change due to commercial pressures so it's nice to see that they are not bothered.

But i must say that there gems in it- you just have to go through a lot of rubbish to get to it. takayanagi/haino- good starting points. And i'm really interested in Hadaka no Rallizes- hopefully I'll find a bootleg copy of 'Live 77' someday.

― Julio Desouza, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NB Is the stuff on CKM even 'Japanoise' in the Masonna/Merzbow/Incapacitants etc. sense of the word?

― Tom, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NO. CKM does not count as JAPANOISE at all! But in reference to Japanoise, I must say pathetic:

pa·thet·ic (phttp://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gi f-thhttp://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.g ifthttp://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gi f http://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.g ifk) also pa·thet·i·cal (-http://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.g if-khttp://cache.dictionary.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gi fl)
adj.

Arousing or capable of arousing sympathetic sadness and compassion: “The old, rather shabby room struck her as extraordinarily pathetic” (John Galsworthy).

― Kodanshi, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would totally give a pony and poached eggZoR to read Galsworthy's actual opinion of Masonna

― mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

bubllegum pop version of napalm death

Hang on. If Melt Banana really did sound like that, they would surely be the greatest band ever.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, it's harsh and mostly well-produced so it goes from quiet to extremely loud and clear. It's impossible to enjoy when you're wondering how pissed the neighbors are and what this nonsense sounds like to an older person through paper thin walls. The latests Boredoms albums have been really great, but most people wouldn't even consider them noise contenders, although the pointlessness of earlier albums like Chocolate Synthesizer are pretty unnervingwith their consistently changing, stopping and starting ear bludgeoning . If a noise album gets groovy for one second, you're immediately assaulted with an obnoxious tempo change that does nothing other than get your attention for a moment. I don't think there's any point to Japanoise, really. It's not trying to convey anything or any emotion in particular...not even the pleasure of music!

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

and...well, with the (big) exception of Keiji Haino, it all sounded a bit dated

Makes sense, because the comp is 5 years old, and most of the songs are older. Ruins doesn't sound like that anymore. Boredoms doesn't sound like that anymore. Jyoji Sawada doesn't sound like that anymore. Plus, most of this isn't exactly "noise" music. In fact, other than Keiji Haino's stuff here (including Fushitsusha), I wouldn't group any of it under the "noise" umbrella.

What it is = hundreds of source materials all stuck together

Unlike Beck or John Zorn. Actually, what I found it to be was a capsule of what seemed to be an underground culture that put our (American) "indie" scene to shame. Bands like Boredoms, Omoide Hatoba, Optical*8 (and Hoppy Kamiyama stuff in general), Demi Semi Quaver, Ruins and Ground Zero have never hidden their influences or pretended to be beacons of originality. Furthermore, some of these bands (including Musica Transonic) are just one of many projects the band members are involved with. I could hardly justify saying people like Seiichi Yamamoto or Hoppy Kamiyama don't "really have any idea what they're doing, or care" based simply on the diversity of the music they have made over the last twenty years or so. I can understand saying Melt Banana or Kirihito aren't "as good as they sound" because they don't seem to have shown the same progression or breadth of peformance as most of the others on the comp.

Is there really anything 'there' in this genre

Here is short list of music I've found in the Japanese avant-rock scene which I consider as good as anything anywhere:

Jyoji Sawada, Base of Fiction, Enfant Terrible
Ruins, Symphonica, Hydermastgroningem, Stonehenge
Koenjihyakkei, Hundred Sights of Koenji, II
Tairikuotoko vs. Sanmyakuonna, Viva Young Florida
Boredoms, Pop Tatari, Super ae, Vision Creation Newsun
Ground Zero, Null and Void, Plays Standards
Melt Banana, Charlie (say what you will, this is fairly unique stuff for a "punk" band)
Hoppy Kamiyama, Juice and Tremolo
Demi Semi Quaver, II
Korekyojin, Korekyojin
Bondage Fruit, II
Happy Family, Toscco
Altered States, Plays Standards

Perhaps others have titles to add?

― dleone, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Richard- I've heard Melt Banana several times now on peel and that's how they came across to me. What do you think they sound like?

― Julio Desouza, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My inclination here was to defend Melt-Banana, but given that I'm relatively underexposed to some of the other stuff being discussed here, my endorsement would probably seem more like a point against.

I would, however, say that I'm not sure how much they belong in this category. Obviously they are Japanese and they are noisy and, as a general part of said scene, have a few sonic and methodological similarities. But in the end, they're basically more like a punk band taking fast loud and spastic to its extreme -- a faithfully- recorded four-piece just making a big, chirpy, splattery racket. They completely lack the "progressive" quality of what's generally taken as "Japanese noise" -- no psychedelia, no mysticism, no styles- in-a-blender, nothing that's trying to "open your mind," so to speak. Not sure how key of a distinction that is, but I get the feeling it's somewhat important.

That said, I love 'em. They are the Jackson Pollock of punk -- a big, vibrant mess of bash bash bash, scratch scratch scratch, squeak squeak squeak.

― Nitsuh, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've always thought of Slipknot as being the closest thing this country has to the Boredoms (multiple percussionists, disjointed, bricolage approach to song construction, costumes, etc). I've always thought Musica Transonic sounded a lot like the the first two songs on "Turn It Over" by the Tony Williams Lifetime. I don't know from orientalism, but I don't like a lot of american noise because the dynamics are rarely as nuanced as the japanoise I enjoy and it's usually connected to some giant, nihilistic "statement" (especially when you see these art-losers perform live, slaughtering animals and attacking the crowd and whatnot...metal comes from the same place probably but it's a lot easier to get humor across within the confines of metal, which is why Slipknot's nihilism is so much better than Macronympha's) whereas the japanoise folks seem to get off on the sounds themselves (a perception which may have a basis in orientalism, or at least xenophilia). There are certain things the japanese have done with rock music particularly that no band outside of japan seems to have been able to approach (I'm thinking specifically of Nanjo, Yoshihide, and Haino). I've never heard Cosmic Kurushi Monsters though. Dave Q's obvious program behind this thread is to get more people to listen to Slipknot, and I certainly support THAT!

― Kris, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My friend Keith23 and me used to spend happy hours watching "The hitman & Her" w/vol turned down, and KK Null on the rekord player.

Apropos ov whatever the fux0r U want, right?

― |\|0|2/|\4|\| |=4'/, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yoshiki forever!

― dinosaur, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been listening to Japanese court music (I think that's what it's called) because I saw as background to a travel show and the thought crossed my mind uninvoked 'if you heard this once, why would you care about western music'? The sounds are drawn out and the tempos are stretched to a pulse about every 15 or 20 seconds. I am just trying to say that probably in the case of 'Japanoise', Zorn or especially things like the Shaggs do not account for every influence, even if the sounds of Japanese music are not explicitly referred to in the liner notes. The beautiful elements of the Shaggs, the strange tempos kept in unison and the ignored bar lines and stuff like that, I mean I'm sure the Shaggs influence these bands but they also have a non-western culture of different forms to refer to, not just a few 'outsiders'. But I don't know how significant that is.

― maryann, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I hear a lot of Punk, Rock and Psychedelia in MASONNA's music.

― Kodanshi, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

maryann, are you talking about gagaku? creepy mouth organs, occasionally a loud thwacking noise? love that stuff. otomo yoshihide kind of did an electro-acoustic hybrid of it on his cathode album...

― your null fame, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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