Who Was the First Band to Use Cookie Monster Vocals?

Mortician's vocals are fantastic! They don't even sound like a sound produced by a human being; they sound like bass-amp distortion.

http://www.muppetcentral.com/collectibles/sesamepics/audio_ss1.jpg

I've always thought of it as a shovel scraping through thick, gravelly soil. I was surprised the first time I saw him sing live, exactly like that.

Here's a New Yorker cartoon about death metal moment that actually happened: Mortician's Will Rahmer explaining his vocal technique to an elderly matron of the arts, following that afternoon show Matthew Barney brought to the Guggenheim a while back.

Howlin' Wolf?
Captain Beefheart?

metal- Macabre?

Looking back a bit, I think Lemmy owned the territory until Venom, but after that it was a month-by-month slide into oblivion. The mid-80s were like the Minutemen era of death metal, and all those later more famous bands like Cannibal Corpse, Obituary, and even Deicide were mostly responsible for streamlining and commercializing the style. One reason black metal euros hated Florida death metal so much.

All of this is hilarious!

I actaully think you'd file John Tardy in the guy-on-the-top-of-the-pile-of-dead-bodies-so-we-just-miked-him style.

Listen, I love Deicide, but they formed in 1987. Death and Morbid Angel created the Florida sound, and were years ahead of them in every way. So were Possessed, Repulsion, Master, Sepultura, Slaughter, Necrovore, etc. What happened in the '90s is a different story.

As for Deicide, yes they were later than those other bands and they may have been influenced by those guys but they don't really sound like em and they were definitely better. The first two Death records were pretty Slayer-esque and then "Altars Of Madness" came along and from then on Florida sounded like Florida.

http://www2.uol.com.br/sepultura/site_images/biography/01.jpg

(also, to add to the discussion, sarcofago and vulcano were all about "grrrgrrgrrr" and so on.)

"Bestial Devastation" is total Celtic Frost/Sodom worship, which is why it rules. And while it was a bit of a disappointment after BtR, "Arise" is definitely a solid album. "Chaos AD", on the other hand, was such a cynical cash-in on the Biohazard/Pantera moshcore trend that it is best forgotten.

so you're saying i should send a cyborg back in time to kill scott burns and tom morris? done!

(in which case, my clear winning answer would be... Cookie Monster and the Girls, from 1978 muthafuckaz... "C Is For Cookie")

my favorite napalm death lately has been the "hatred surge" tape - i don't think anyone who plays on it was actually in the band by the second side of "scum" (mick harris is credited as being a member, but not playing on the tape). nice post-discharge yelling and gloom happening.

But who else belongs in this succession: Popeye -> Quorthon/Bathory -> Mille/Kreator -> Abbath/Immortal?

Question: Essential Grind On CD...what do I need?

I'm going record shopping on Sunday to pick up Scum and From Enslavement To Obliteration and Brutal Truth's Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses, and would like to know what other titles I should pick up. I really never spent much time investigating grindcore other than those two, Discordance Axis (who I fucking worship, of course) and Circle Of Dead Children. So gimme a list. Thanks in advance.

(i still like the first assuck EP and live tape.)

I was thinking of this thread recently, too, after receiving a whopping box of 300+ mid-80s metal demos from my old spiritual leaders at SUCK CITY magazine. God this is great, the hidden and unsigned glories of Gow, Avalanche Danger, Poison (the US band this time), Incubus, At War, Casbah, Hell's, Sacrilege BC, Medieval, Necrophagia, Kil d'Kor, Flotsam & Jetsam, Heathen, Incinerator, Hellhound, Carnivore, Deathwish, Holy Terror, Ice Age, Atomic Opera, ad nauseum.

Immersed in the era, I stand by my earlier John Kerry-esque nuanced proclamation; that the so-called Cookie Monster style was not invented, but it evolved iota by iota over the course of a million tape trades. I'd say Lemmy was the start, Napalm Death Scum was the end point, and Mortician is the point of no return.

Incubus is incredible, by the way. Two members of early Morbid Angel, present on the fabled MA "Thy Kingdom Come" demo. The band has that churning, psychotic diseased sound necessary in truly inspired death metal. This isn't the Louisana band or the nu metal group, by the way. Plus nuff respect due a singer with the stage name / real name "Sterling von Scarborough".

This week I finally scanned and compiled a PDF of the new 21st chapter from the Sound of the Beast paperback, for those of you blessed with the hardcover (or who haven't gotten around to decorating your home with this lovely book).

And a reader was inspired to write a small application that randomly generates death metal lyrics from verses in Sound of the Beast and Dante's Inferno. An excellent diversion, if he could only make it web-friendly.

Anyway, once you find the time to do so, I have faith that our own John D., for one, would adore you for such a project as well. Siegbran doubtless too. There will be glory.

Voor - "Evil Metal" (from Evil Metal 1984 demo)

Raw proto-Cookies from Venom-inspired French Canadians.

i got my demo collection out of storage a while back - originally with the intent of scanning the worst examples of 80s thrash/death metal demo art and making a gallery... some just excruciatingly terrible/great pictures of long haired guys with axes standing at the gates of cemetaries. i think that's what they all are, actually.

(ian, by nihilist - you mean the american one? or entombed?)

http://www.soundofthebeast.com/images/demos.jpg

esg -- yes, nihilist us.

It's frustrating for me because I really like what the guitarists and drummers are doing these days in HM - it's really creative and weird. Then cookie monster comes in and, well, it's ok for a while, but there's not a lot of range in the approach.

http://www.wfmu.org/LCD/26/gfxlcd26/immortal.jpg

Ta-daaaa...they aren't!

Me take bite from here, me take bite from there
And pretty soon, me bite everywhere!
Me eat with both hands, no need fork or spoon,
Me chew it all up, until there no moon!

If moon was cookie it wouldn't be fine
Because if me ate it, then it wouldnt shine
Me come to the window and look up at night,
But no little moonbeams would give me their light
So me not like to say it, but it clear to me
It lucky that moon is not a cookie!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v252/rankingmonkey/ilx/VOMIT_ilx.jpg

And then the two Death records "scream bloody gore" and "Leprosy" some time around 1986-87. those are my first recollections of cookiespeak.

This is a cool and informative thread well worth your time... I revive to ask a related question, which has been on my mind lately: who were the bands that first started to use this general style of vocals (either DM Cookie or BM Gollum) in the context of lighter, more melodic, less aggressive/brutal/pummeling music? I'm just really starting to explore, but I'm finding it really, really difficult to get into bands that do this, especially when they alternate between clean, actual-notes singing and the monster voice. It's hard for me not to feel like the brutality/intensity of the vocals is really unearned, or tacked-on feeling. The vocals just come across so jarringly theatrical to me when the music doesn't match their aggression. Was it Ulver who started it? Maybe I just don't like "melodic" DM or BM? That would sadden me, because a lot of people whose tastes I respect seem to dig it, and I want to hear what they hear.

(This was prompted by having just picked up a used copy of Vertebrae by Enslaved (2003). I immediately liked the music a lot: thick, grandiose, immersive, verging on Pink Floyd (in a good way) at times, and like Ride or Slowdive at others. The clean singing was fine, if a little over-solemn. But the monster vocals really just kinda spoiled it for me.)

Why on earth is "Boris the Spider" not mentioned on this page?

it has to be celtic frost, bathory or something like that but I didn't went that far so I'm not sure. hope these suggestions for melodic stuff aren't too obvious.

early paradise lost (1991) maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Km4sSsCH4c

the first katatonia album (1993) is incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umbko1vFy6Y

mikael akerfeldt from opeth excels with the vocal thing (check the transitions), from orchid (1995)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=942P4XdNXW4

simen hestnaes as well, here with borknagar (2000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix9BdChthGE

uh mistakes, youtube links not working, fuck.

Thanks wolves, I'm still sort of a noob so those aren't at all obvious. I have The Olden Domain by Borknagar which I do like, but it does walk that line. I'll track down the tracks...

Then there's all the orchestral stuff that doesnt even have guitars but still utilizes extreme (BM) vocals: Summoning, Elend, Angizia, Profanum.

Why on earth is "Boris the Spider" not mentioned on this page?

Ha! I just came on here to say that, beaten to the punch!

oh elend, what a scary band.. but really, I should have only said: paradise lost, gothic.

no typos, no bad youtube links = no embarrassment.

I have been trying to think of other bands but it's all 1991 at the earliest for me (also septic flesh, tiamat, monumentum). this is a very interesting question, I will check some old metal maniacs when I get home today to see if I can find something else.

Gothic is still pretty heavy/extreme, or at least not less than say the Cathedral demo/debut. Monumentum was straight-up Celtic Frost worship, I guess it all goes back to Tom G Warrior then?

Tom Waits.

yes! I found a review of the celtic frost reissues. into the pandemonium (1987) seems to be the answer here:

http://imgur.com/a/stdHc

a cool interview with bathory from 1996. blood, fire, death (1988) started the melodic black metal thing.

http://imgur.com/a/AAfyQ

True answer:

http://images.45cat.com/the-novas-the-crusher-london.jpg

OK, duly noted all around. Here's a good faith first taste:
Voor - "Evil Metal" (from Evil Metal 1984 demo)

Raw proto-Cookies from Venom-inspired French Canadians.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Saturday, April 17, 2004 4:58 PM bookmarkflaglink

they apparently put out a proper album in 2017. jfc EVERYBODY is reuniting to drop something. that's weirder than the Nausea reunion of 2014.

This is a great thread. Is there any chance someone has a copy of the New Yorker cartoon mentioned below they could post?

"Here's a New Yorker cartoon about death metal moment that actually happened: Mortician's Will Rahmer explaining his vocal technique to an elderly matron of the arts, following that afternoon show Matthew Barney brought to the Guggenheim a while back."

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 16:06 (sixteen years ago)

According to wikipedia earliest use of the “death growl” is Hildegard of Bingen in the 12th century, prior to that it’s allegedly the Vikings, and in rock band format The Who with Boris the Spider. In heavy metal, the band Death are one of the first to popularize that style of vocals. The whole article is fairly interesting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_growl

No mention on the wikipedia article or on this thread and it’s probably too whispery and high-pitched to count as cookie monster vocals but Cro-magnon’s Caledonia from 1969 has always sounded to me like a primitive form of black metal.

I’d love to get my hands on that Incubus demo mentioned. I remember having a song of theirs on tape. Tough band to Google.

xxp I think it just means “reminiscent of a New Yorker cartoon”(?)

Yeah, I dont know but I imagine wry commentary on Matthew Barney (as much as cookie monster vocals) to be entirely plausible from the New Yorker.

Didn't see it mentioned (may have missed it) but United Mutation was doing this in 1983.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZaT1u5kGps

Although they came up in Northern Virginia, where I spent my salad days, I didn't hear about them until I got the Bitzcore For a Fistful of Yens! compilation.

The NOVAS "The Crusher"

https://youtu.be/N7WqVSq_QgY

i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7WqVSq_QgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlJnwGAL9C4