DOO: Loveless

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"Sometimes"

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

:~-(

Uh..."Loomer"! Cause it's short! (I still wouldn't want to destroy it, though.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

yet "touched" is shorter! (but i can't separate it from "to here knows when")

noone said this would be an easy exercise, Ned!

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

instrumental 'A' ;-)

― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

destroy: anyone who wants to destroy anything on loveless.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Gygax, you're going crazy again! "Sometimes" has that amazing rolling bass acoustic guitar thing that puts it in the essential column. Also, the song is pretty.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"Soon", the "Fools Gold" of Loveless.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"sometimes" can not outlast my skip button for more than 15 seconds max. it is the most unimaginitive song on the record (songwriting, lyrically*, production-wise). the sampled crescendos reek of emotional manipulation. the debt alone that certain 90s alternative band(s) made endless imitations of is enough to drill a hole in it's place on the cd. even compared to the weaker tracks on "isn't anything" it blows.

*the fact that the lyrics are most discernable on this track (of the lot) is troubling.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

yet "touched" is shorter!

Oh right! Then "Touched" instead!

the debt alone that certain 90s alternative band(s) made endless imitations of
is enough to drill a hole in it's place on the cd.

WHY DO YOU THINK I LIKE IT SO MUCH!

But I liked it before one B.C. heard it and went "Ah!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

although "soon" is definitely overrated in some circles, i can't see a "destroy" here as (to borrow from Spencer), it is pretty essential to the album.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

*the fact that the lyrics are most discernable on this track (of the lot) is troubling.

but wouldn't that make it the most emo? thereby confirming your other crazy theory?!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

This whole thread is like popping a zit on Alizee's back.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not saying anything against the song, rather it being recycled. Sticks out worse than "Fools Gold", actually-- it's from what, 18 months previous to the sessions for the album proper? Leave it on Glider.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"Sometimes" is gorgeous simplicity - the background tones in it and "Blown a Wish" are the record's most memorable for me.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I disagree, for example I think that "You Made Me Realise" would have made 'Isn't Anything' even stronger.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not following you Spencer... emo lyrics are discernable (or not)?

i can't be arsed to find that other "crazy" thread but your rebuttal was that loveless' lyrics are mere half-thoughts of sex (very coarse paraphrase). i mean, that is the most emo thing ever!

xpost "cigarette in your bed" too!

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I would just assume that emo lyrics are discernible?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

mmm... discernable in print.

but speaking as an emo-purist... sometimes discernable (usually not in my faves though).

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry the whole idea of this thread offends me. I'm off to post more productively.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I'm sad too, Spencer, but I'm just treating it for a larf.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with the title of this thread. If I had to destroy only one album in my collection, it could very well be Loveless. I remember not being too impressed by it when it came out and then, spurned on by the adulations here and Pitchfork calling it the "Best Album of the 90s" or whatever, I bought the LP when I saw it in the store the other day and yep, it was the same noisy mess I remembered.

― BrianB (BrianB), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yay noisy mess!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

why be sad about determing what your least favorite song on the album is? take a stand!

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I did! The shortest! That way the pain is limited.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

They're all the fucking same anyway, except for that one about spanners.

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

You're thinking 'The Queen Is Dead' Nick!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I am?

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, too obscure. nevermind.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Nevermind is obscure?

― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"Soon" is a great epilogue to that record. It's intense listening to Loveless from start to finish, "Soon" is like dessert. I get the relieved, giddy feeling ons sometimes has after getting off a rollercoaster.

― Rocco, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

DOO : What You Want

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I got your joke, Spencer! I laughed! (Then again, yesterday I made a joke about NT file systems on ILE so that might not be the ringing endorsement you're looking for.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Huzzah! I'll keep an eye out for yours, but it's unlikely I'll get it.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

cant we just destroy the whole damn thing?

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I got your joke, Spencer! I laughed!

I did too! *whimper*

cant we just destroy the whole damn thing?

No. *beats todd down*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

bbbbut ned, its really not that good ;)

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, you're mean.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's practially impossible this one. I do agree with the "Soon" stuff in that it sticks out, although I don't quite get the "Fools gold" bit, what does it stick out from? "What the world is waiting for"?

"Touched" is another candidate. Not amazingly keen on that one - at least not compared to the ones around it. It's a bit like "Glider", it sounds like a dredger.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

take your pick of tracks 1-4. Or at least 2-4.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

it is the most unimaginitive song on the record (songwriting, lyrically*, production-wise). the sampled crescendos reek of emotional manipulation.

I never addressed this but the angle is completely wrong. "Emotional Manipulation"? These are POP songs, and the sentiments are archetypical. That's the whole point of MBV and say J&MC. The songs are often saccharine and cloying. But despite their noise and force, they're not saying something new - they reify syrupy emotions, state the obvious, and pull the heartstrings unabashedly.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

compared to the rest of the record, it's cheap and tacky sounding.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I completely disagree - I don't think it sounds out of place at all, it especially doesn't sound cheaper.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

let us agree to disagree!

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the warmest textured song on the album with one of the prettiest melodies.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry xpost, yes!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

We disagree on so many things gygax!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the strangest battle royale over MBV I've seen in a while! Hm. Simon R put it best about the qualities of this song but damned if I can find my transcription of the review, hrm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Spencer, it's because the things we agree on are taken for granted so often.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps, but I'm beginning to suspect that we are bizarro versions of each other.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

also Ned, Simon R put it best about the qualities of this song

...ahem... over here?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

*befuddled, concludes self has been working too much today*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, I was just saying that depending on your point of view, either gygax or myself has put it best! support your local amateurs!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I love you both.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Would it be ok to delete a minute from "To Here Knows When"? That track always seems too long to me... if not, I nominate "I Only Said", because that main hook gets annoying quick.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Thursday, 29 January 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

The drumming on this record totally ruins it for me. It's like more-stiff Linn drums. grr

― Ian Grey (Ian_G), Thursday, 29 January 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd kick 'touched' off first

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 29 January 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the one about spanners, right? The one wot the drummer wrote?

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Simon Reynolds on "Sometimes":- "Sometimes" is an aftermath ballad, Kevin Shields vocal huddling forlornly in a crater overshadowed by a looming precipice of grunge.

and on "Touched":- "Touched" sounds like the muzak of the spheres: a whale howling the Delta blues in intermingled with what sounds like Radio Two heard from a wireless at the bottom of a swimming pool.

was that what you were looking for Ned?

― Neil FC (Neil FC), Thursday, 29 January 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Woo, thank you! That was indeed the quote.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

pitchfork-esque. where is the wizard's cap?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 29 January 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, what I like about is that it suggests one take on "Sometimes" (singers huddled down below) when the song is equally suggestive of aspiration and rising up, vocals above the music rather than vice versa. But both takes suggest space and scope, for an album that is generally speaking so swirling and multicolored and full, all of a sudden there's height and depth...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely the correct answer is 'When You Sleep'?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

in what fucked up parallel universe?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

This fucked up parallel universe!

This is the song that is the most "trad" on the album, the one that sounds the most unimaginative, the most dated, and to top all this, outstays its welcome by at least 2 minutes. It would be much better - if we have to keep it on the album - to allocate those two minutes to another track.

The ultimate scenario is a 7 minute Loomer and a 10 track album of course.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Just because you can actually make out actual guitar sounds in the song hardly makes it "trad", it's how the My Bloody Valentine Noise TM boils around the guitar that makes it sound fascinating.

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 04:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"when you sleep' is 2 minutes overlong, that much i agree with. but otherwise, it is SO not the loveless DOO. "touched" is prob. the one i'd settle on in a pinch.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah, it's how the chaos is sculpted into hooks and songs which makes them grebt, and this song just doesn't for that for me.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"When you Sleep" is the best thing on the damn album you mentalists.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce it's mentalist - singular - it's only Chewshabadoo. Honest.

Chewshabadoo: I agree in general that it is about how the sound is sculpted into hooks that make them great, but "When You Sleep" provides much needed variation to the album as well as acting as an acousticesque counterpoint to Dance oriented Soon in showing how these techniques can be used.

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 05:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"When you Sleep" is the best thing on the damn album you mentalists.

And was beautifully covered by Mira on their debut. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i have never heard this album.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 06:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus fuck.

"Soon"

It's on Glider already.

There. No lost songs from the MBV catalog.

Happy?

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Something tells me you don't appreciate the innate pettiness of a thread like this.

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

What concerns me is that you all know the song titles. this is one of the few albums I play all the way through, so have no idea what the tracks are cllaed, except for the singles. I'd get rid of the penultimate track. Also 'Fool's Gold' isn't on 'TSR'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Youre all insane

i'll never DOO Loveless.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, Mira's cover is the worst thing ever!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

No it isn't! I lurve it, the more so because I hadn't looked at the track list before hearing the album for the first time and was completely taken by surprise.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

i seriously don't get this crazy idea of cutting two minutes off when you sleep. not only it is my fave song here, it is only a little more than 4 minutes long. let's face it if there is a song which needs some serious chopping off, it can only be soon. i like it, it has some memories attached to it which have to do with a younger self, even younger girls, a weird town and an even weirder bar called blitz where they used to play it late at night and all these young people were dancing on the windowsill. but it goes on forever and ever. the sample which has a certain kind of cheesiness to it to which i am not immune i have to admit is repeated so many times that it becomes so cheap that even a miser like me can't take it anymore. seriously, five minutes would have been largely enough. instead it goes on for another two minutes up to the point where even benevolent (modesty isn't my strength) people like me start to hate the song.

― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 25 May 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

def "Touched"

― billstevejim, Saturday, 24 January 2009 05:33 (sixteen years ago)

God this album rules.

― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 08:01 (sixteen years ago)

Pretty irritated by the fake leaks. And would stand by the "Soon" DOO five years on, though I now know the sessions, if you can refer to them in a contiguous sense, were one big horror show of chipping away at backing tracks.

― cee-oh-tee-tee, Saturday, 24 January 2009 12:50 (sixteen years ago)

Pretty ~~irritated~~amused by the fake leaks.

― J0hn D., Saturday, 24 January 2009 14:00 (sixteen years ago)

I'm damn amused!

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 January 2009 14:34 (sixteen years ago)

what's "DOO"?

― highschoolworld, Saturday, 24 January 2009 14:57 (sixteen years ago)

Destroy Only One

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 January 2009 14:57 (sixteen years ago)

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