New C Love

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On vh1.com you can listen to 'America's Sweetheart.' What do you think about it?

― JesusMaryChain, Tuesday, 3 February 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Pink + Def Leppard = GREATEST THING EVER

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Are we talking "Get This Party Started" Pink or the unfortunate gulfs on either side? (Similarly, Pyromania/Hysteria Def Leppard or mid-nineties craptastic DL?)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

yes

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

It's so clear now!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

When I saw this thread title, I assumed you were talking about some hip-hopper.

Shouldn't the bedraggled nation of Hole fans hate her fuckin' guts now? Could she be BE ANY MORE of a fuckin' sellout? Seems to me she used to give a voice to the ugly ducklings and the wallflowers and the non-beautiful people, only to shun her faithful fanbase and become a "beautiful person" herself (although lately, it seems the glue's no longer sticking and stuff starting to slide....karma anyone?) Even her music has has undergone a savage makeover. Where once she was celebrated for her cutting edge and (arguably) credible punkitude, she's now roping in Linda Perry (and really, weren't 4-Non Blondes the veritable antithesis of everything the original grunge corps were trying to be?) and other "hit-makers". It's a fallacy and a sham and a starfucking lie.

As far as I'm concerned, she's always been a stack of crap, but surely I'm not the only one, am I?

As for her new album, I wouldn't even use it to scrape dogshit off my shoes.

"Samuel, TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

is this her use your illusion or her spaghetti incident?

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

from what I understand it's her Chinese Democracy, or maybe her It's Five O'Clock Somewhere

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex- "Do something pretty, while you still can"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(and that's the indiest thing I've ever said).

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

And the most nonsensical.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, the world's biggest sellout is Jack Daniels.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever you say, Dom.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It is though. You can get a Jack Daniels logo on fucking everything. Tee-shirts, lighters, guitars, jackets, hip-flasks... it's the American Hello Kitty, in that it just sells you an image of a country that you don't belong to. At least Hello Kitty is an actual commercial enterprise, and doesn't give it all this "We're made by one blind guy in a town that has no civillians" crap.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Why shouldn't Courtney shun her faithful fanbase if a) she doesn't want to do things they like anymore, and b) they don't respect her right to do what she wants?

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The idea that Courtney's "fanbase", the raging hoardes over at KittyRadio or hole.com or whatever that message board is called this week, *deserve* anything other than a good slap (possibly with a nail gun), is definitely a fallacy.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I'm right there with ya, Dom. But I'm talking about the principle. Outspoken artist talks big about punk conviction and decries the poseurism of others, and then succumbs themseleves. It's called hypocrisy.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Just wait till she's on I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the album is good.

― Alex in LA, Tuesday, 3 February 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think 4 Non-blondes were the anitthesis of everything the original grunge corps were trying to be. They certainly looked pretty grunge--they weren't that far removed from L-7 in appearance, really. They just happened to be the worst group in the history of recorded music.

I don't remember Courtney decrying the poseurism of others too often, really, except herself. Though I'm sure she throws around the word "punk" a lot in a knowing, elder statesman sort of way. Like rock people of a certain age do.

Anyway, I look forward to everything Courtney does, crap or not. "Mono" was fun.

― Arthur (Arthur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

This is the longest I've read about the Courtney Love album without someone quoting the line about "pills in my coochie."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

She is great. Off to check out the album now..

― daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The line is "I got pills for my coochie cause baby I'm sore".

Most of this album is great, only exceptions I can think of right now are "Hello" and "Life despite God".

Sunset Strip, Julian, Almost Golden, Uncool and I'll do anything are amazing rock songs. And the Zeplin Song is pure fun and good pop.

The "Mono" video is also absolutely fantastic.

― Alex in LA, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 09:47 (twenty-two years ago)

On first listen, dull rambling radio rock that has been *entirely* trupmed by the excellent Auf Der Maur album (which got a bit of a kicking on its own thread but WRONGLY)

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in NYC, surely you don't think that being 'punk' and then changing your mind automatically makes everything you go on to do in your life utterly worthless, does it?

― Dave M. (rotten03), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Downloading the album now - like what I'm hearing.

― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in NYC, surely you don't think that being 'punk' and then changing your mind automatically makes everything you go on to do in your life utterly worthless, does it?

It has nothing to do with "punk". It has to do with saying one thing (at a high volume and often) and then reversing yourself.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

... and that kind of hypocricy surely means that either you never really were / never really understood "punk" to begin with, or that you've ever done in your life is pretty much worthless.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 February 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"It has nothing to do with "punk". It has to do with saying one thing (at a high volume and often) and then reversing yourself."

So to avoid "hypocrisy," one should either:

1. Wait until five minutes before your death before revealing any opinions so you won't have time to change your mind.

2. Stand by the first opinion you express--doggedly, persistently, blindly--no matter how your life or the world around you changes.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Keith, stop being such a despearte apologist for the woman.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

desperate, even!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

1. Wait until five minutes before your death before revealing any opinions so you won't have time to change your mind.

Repent, you mean? Why not, it worked for Jeffrey Dahmer.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

alex has clearly chosen #2.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, I didn't mention the woman, haven't heard the record. Just pointing out that your definition of hypocrisy is so ludicrously broad I don't see how anyone over the age of 15 could say shit like that with a straight face.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't necessarily disagree w/alex w/r/t #2. C Love, (like for example B Gllsp) does seem to resemble the broken reed that blows this way and that, depending on the direction of the prevailing wind (or something)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously, every artist has a right to change/evolve as dictates their muse, but in the case of La Love, she's always been rather keen on naming names and decrying others that she seems rather two-faced and YES, hypocritcal.

What would the Courtney Love of Pretty on the Inside have to say about the Courtney of today, I wonder?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

But Courtney *never* decried the Hollywood glitz and glam she's associated with now. If anything, she kissed it's ass. And fwiw, I fucking love her, always have, (though she drives me nuts at times with her celebrity addictions) and hope to God she sticks around.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

What would the John Lennon on Plastic Ono Band have to say about the John of Double Fantasy?

Hypocrites make for bad friends, interesting artists/public figures, not a new development.

Actually, "hypocrite" isn't the right word, since we're not about saying one thing *while* behaving differently, but saying one thing and than later saying something else.

Plus Jeanne's OTM.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't you tire of the histrionics? Don't you get bored of the slo-mo car wreck?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

"Don't you tire of the histrionics? Don't you get bored of the slo-mo car wreck?"

Aw, don't be so hard on yourself, Alex. Your shtick is always good for a laugh.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 6 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't tire of the histrionics, but I am tired of the slo-mo car wreck. (in re: to C Love, I mean)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in LA: As I type this, I'm listening to an advance copy (not sequenced or final) and "Life Despite God" is not listed as one of the tracks.
Can you enlighten me?
Incidentally, I'm liking this album more than I thought I would.

― M Deeds, Friday, 6 February 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Aw, don't be so hard on yourself, Alex. Your shtick is always good for a laugh.

hahaha...ya got me on that one.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

And I'm now gonna bow out, since I haven't even heard this record.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 6 February 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Celebrity Skin Part II (no bad thing). I love "Mono" more and more each day; "But Julian..." is hilarious and fantastic, and from two listens I remember "I'll Do Anything" and "Life Despite God" being highlights. "Hello" is wonderful. No point criticising the voice as Courtney's never done things like hold notes, but it does sound ragged in a bad way on the ballads like "Hold On To Me". While I like America's Sweetheart just fine, and will probably love it even more once I've heard it a few more times, I suspect Mencap may be right re: Auf Der Maur's album trumping it.

Hypocrisy may not be a particularly pleasant trait in a friend but it has absolutely no relevance to whether Courtney's music is good. I don't have to live around her so I could care less if she's a bitch; for what it's worth I find her one of the more fascinating celebrities around.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 6 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in LA: Forget my question. Track 9 is listed as "The Plague" on my advance. I'm assuming it's been retitled "Life Despite God" now.

― M Deeds, Friday, 6 February 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mono" is mediocre, and so is the rest of the album.

Courtney Love may not be a hypocrite but she's a narcisstic asshole. Her public comments (in the press, on the Hole website, on the Velvet Rope) regarding the Nirvana box set were beyond belief. Further, before she signed with Virgin she made many statements that could easily be construed as hypocritical--when the time came to fight the system she took her leverage and rolled over. She bragged and bragged how she would fight and get things changed but instead, she gave in to save her career. Yeah, she's free to change her mind but she always said she was fighting Geffen on principle, not to gain leverage for her own career.

― don weiner, Friday, 6 February 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Again, what does Courtney being a 'narcissistic asshole' or not have to do with her album? I don't want to be her friend, I want to listen to her music.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"So what if John Wayne Gacy sexually violated, mutilated and killed all those adolescent boys, I LOVE HIS PAINTINGS!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Imagining the Zorak voice helps so much.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Lex - the first line of my post was an accurate description of the album. My other comments were relative to the thread. I think that is self explanatory, and relevant.

Further, it's impossible to separate the cultural, non-musical aspects from popular music--especially given that Courtney seems so obsessed with them. Personally, I could care less how she looks, how she drugs, or how she gets a lot of plastic surgery. I think a) the new album is mediocre and b) her personality is grating.

― don weiner, Friday, 6 February 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Believe me, Pretty on the Inside Courtney Love would have totally worshipped America's Sweetheart Courtney Love.

I'm with Jeanne.

― Arthur (Arthur), Saturday, 7 February 2004 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

in a starfucking way or a legitimate way? i say starfucking.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Saturday, 7 February 2004 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

there's a difference?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

This is where I admit I never really found Courtney L fascinating as a public figure, really. Like Eminem, what is supposedly a huge part of the specific appeal -- the contradictions and the self-portraits in and out of the music -- is just sorta... *shrugs*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I still find her fascinating. Probably a big part of it is that I find complaints about hypocrisy (in art, how silly! but in politics as well) to be stifling and reactionary, and by such standards.. Court is hypocritical in a gleeful, reckless and totally obvious way, and wow, is it effective at making reactionaries show their true colors.

I know people like her - in real life it's best to steer clear, as they're tons of fun until you try to set boundaries or disagree, and then you have an explosive situation - but it's great stuff on record!

― daria g (daria g), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Court is hypocritical in a gleeful, reckless and totally obvious way, and wow, is it effective at making reactionaries show their true colors.

Oh that's right, it's all part of the master plan, isn't it. Gimme a break.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I stopped liking her when she stopped saying smart, interesting things in interviews. I stopped caring about this whole drama once I knew her kid was safe. For all I know there's some great songs on the album but as far as the drama goes she's right behind Jacko on the "Oh, just get help or die" meter.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony's a roll!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

A cinnamon roll with frosting? Can I break him up and dunk him in cocoa?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

By all means!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

eep.
http://www.funky.org/simpsons/images/use10.jpg

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

by the way, I retract my initial impression. I actually played the disc (haha, always helpful in these matters) and I like it.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

and like Ned, I've never found her all that fascinating a persona. but I put the disc on and lo and behold--I liked the singing, and the songs. go figure.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

I've listened to it once and was a bit disappointed - it just sounds so random and rushed and where is the burnished power-ballad-rock and quasi-portentous lyricsof Celebrity Skin? But then I've only listened to it once so my thoughts may change.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 03:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone needs to lock her in a rubber room for a while, or else she's going to od. I feel sorry for her kid. It's a drag to watch the person who is supposed to be looking out for you completely lose it. Personally I feel bad for her. She's gone long enough and hard enough into the drug thing that even if she manages to temper her habit or quit, she's not coming back.

What do you think the odds are that Francis Bean releases an album someday? I'd say it's inevitible.

― shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Sitting around flipping through a friend's Spin yesterday and there's an interview with Courtney and she gets to saying how America's Sweetheart was supposed to be her “global” Exile on Maine Street where she flew around the world taking whatever drugs were around and writing songs and how she wasn't exactly happy with the results. Despite the misguided inspiration, I'm still happy with the results. This record holds up really well and I'm a little disappointed in her reaction to it. I always heard an endearing replacements trying to do hard rock thing in it. I mean obviously it was a rough time for her and everything but the record is still pretty great.

― dan. (dan.), Friday, 7 October 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

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