Attention Deficit Disorder: which industry/audience has a shorter attention span

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It's a given that yesterday's treasure is tomorrow's garbage in the music industry, even moreso now than ever it seems. So who chews up and spits out artists faster, whose got the highest rate of attrition?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

pop seems to deal better with the concept of retro

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Pop fans tend to be younger, so they have shorter attention spans and are more likely to grow out of their musical tastes.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

but look at the variety of scenes that indie has coughed up and subsequently buried just in the last few years: Elephant 6, garage rock, electroclash, now this punk-funk thing... Five years ago you'd have people raving about Superchunk or JSBX or whoever and when was the last time their names were mentioned with enthusiasm (as opposed to derision and scorn). By contrast, Britney and Timberlake still have full-throttle major label careers.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

less self-loathing in pop = longer shelf life.

― Huckadelphia (Horace Mann), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Five years ago, nobody talked about Superchunk at all... you must mean 10 years ago. At any rate I saw Superchunk's singer last month and it was one of the better shows I'd seen in a while.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

okay yeah, 10 years ago, whatever - I'm not talking about whether a given band is still good or not, but whether or not their former audience has deserted them. (Besides yr unusually devoted in yr Superchunk fandom, admit it - the vast majority of the indie world has forgotten about them and moved on to the Rapture or Interpol or whoever).

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Indie is like a shark - if it stops moving, it can't breathe.
Pop is a, um, jellyfish.

Pop audiences have a shorter attention span though. Singles -vs- 10-minute indie ramblings.. come on.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but indie is basically OK with everything that that sounds tangentially like a few 20 - 30 year old bands (mostly the velvet underground, joy division, smiths, etc.)whereas pop sounds pretty different from week to week - sure there's a few established templates in pop but I think people do demand new bells & whistles more often.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't agree at all Fritz - seems to me pop doesn't stray very far from its blend of hip-hop and the occasional techno trickery or r&b crooning. And it's been like that for several years now. You've got producers like Dr. Dre who have been making hits for 15 years and are still considered "cutting edge". N.E.R.D., Missy+Timba, Outkast - all these people were just getting started when folks like the aforementioned JSBX were still hotshit in indie circles. Now JSBX is off the radar, and Outkast is about to win a shitload of Grammys. And who in the indie world has maintained a comparable position to someone like Dr. Dre? (Albini? His name doesn't sell records anymore). And just a few years ago Joy Division and the Smiths were definitely NOT cool reference points in indie circles...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, that should be the Neptunes instead of N.E.R.D. I was referring to them in their capacity as popular, moneymaking producers.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Besides yr unusually devoted in yr Superchunk fandom, admit it - the vast majority of the indie world has forgotten about them and moved on to the Rapture or Interpol or whoever.

Not really, there's just fewer of the bands that I followed 15 years ago that are still around today.

The Rapture/Interpol are fine with me too... good singles/decent debuts.

I think the key here is caring who has forgotten about them rather then listening to whatever you like.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 6 February 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm interested in this from a sociological point of view gygax, and how these trends impact what's getting put out by the indies or the majors at any given time. This doesn't have anything to do with my personal listening habits - which have always been pretty hopelessly out-of-step with the masses on either side of the pop/indie divide anyway, since I do have a policy of "listening to whatever I like", as you put it.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Drawing the line from JSBX to The White Stripes does not take much effort. Both audiences are equally fickle, good luck trying to quantify it.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 6 February 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounded short, sorry I'm on the phone. What I meant to say is, it's a difficult exercise. I don't think I can help you.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 6 February 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

but look at the variety of scenes that indie has coughed up and subsequently buried just in the last few years
Indie definitely eats its young, but indie rarely forgets. It is entirely possible that nobody will care about Interpol or the Rapture in five years time, but they'll certainly be remembered when people make their Best of the Decade lists. In pop music, once you're gone, you're gone. The Spice Girls were an immense phenomenon -- and they're never mentioned these days. Pop fans don't sit around and reminisce about the good old days when they were into the Spice Girls, but indie fans will sit down and reminisce about a Superchunk gig from 1991.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 6 February 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if the indie world may be crueler and less permissive of any band trying to establish any longevity due to their audience's pervasive, undying desire to be up-to-date on the latest "hot new thing". Pop seems sorta more conservative, in that the ability to make money trumps the impetus to generate some (ostensibly) new form.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry that is mental! The time lag is different - but nostalgia nights are always massive business, and dancing to "Rio" at SkoolDisco is no different from reminiscing about that Superchunk gig. I think there's more pressure on an indie fan than a pop fan to be schooled on musical history (I don't think there's any pressure on a pop fan actually) but even that is short-term and dependent on what influences are hot at the moment.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 6 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

But nostalgia nights are just that -- nostalgia. They're harmless, throwaway, easily forgettable experiences. All of us have been to nostalgia nights, but can you honestly distinguish one night from the other? Most of the time, there's nothing unique about nostalgia night -- each Friday night at SkoolDisco is interchangeable with all of the others. On the other hand, I can tell you tangible details about every Spiritualized gig I have seen, i.e. the people there, what the band played, and so on.
I know this sounds REALLY indie-elitist, and I guess it is (although that was not my intention). But it's hard to get around that -- as you said, TT, indie fans are usually better schooled in their music and it can be difficult to not seem smug about it.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Why are you comparing nostalgia nights with actual concerts?

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say indie fads come and go quicker than mainstream pop ones.

― Stupid (Stupid), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Now JSBX is off the radar, and Outkast is about to win a shitload of Grammys.

The hole in this is if a fad/band is too successful/popular don't they leave the indie stratosphere?

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 6 February 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

but who's left the indie-sphere lately? The White Stripes...? I'd say they've only kinda sorta succeeded as a crossover act. It seems to me most bands (and scenes) get chewed up and cast aside before anyone even gets the chance to "graduate".

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 February 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

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Attention Deficit Disorder: which industry/audience has a shorter attention span - indie or pop?