Mr Writer!

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I assume that a large percentage of posters here are either musicians or critics. (Of course, many are involved in both, but I assume everybody has a primary focus, or at least one they spend more time on.) Question for the people who think of themselves as musicians first - what do you REALLY think of critics IN GENERAL? Feel free to make wild sweeping statements. (This isn't meant to encourage personal swipes at known scribes on this board BTW, so no 'examples please!' pedantry, just ill-informed stereotypes please!) For writers on this board, feel free to make prejudicial statements about artists as a class as well!

dave q, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

OK I'll bite - IMO critics love to be seen, love ligging, and spend more time getting drunk and stoned for free than doing any legwork. That's fine, I wouldn't expect any less from somebody who's doing a job where fun can be had. I DO however think it's a bit rich when these same people constantly lament how the 'music' is dying and there isn't any new good stuff around.

dave q, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The general problem with most artists is that they think - deep down - that because they have the right to make music we have a duty to think well of it. They also believe that effort and aesthetic achievement are causally linked. Basically, most critics aren't selfish or self-indulgent enough: listening to music is a basically self-indulgent act, responding to it could at least reflect that.

When it comes down to it, the purpose of art is to stimulate response, i.e. criticism - it's just a pity that the word "criticism" has come to mean people bashing out hundred-word reviews of Travis for local newspapers.

Tom, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i *would* advise you all to see that letter i had in der vire a few months back if it wasn't so...horrid. (there was a pearl of a point there, i know it.)

otherwise, i'll be back later with an actual answer. for right now, my shower is calling me. (baaaaaaaaaaaaalllly hiiiiiiiiiigh...)

jess, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

All music critics are deeply ugly, joyless, witless oafs with no light behind their eyes.

Apart from the ones who give Fosca decent reviews, who coincidentally happen to be fabulously wise and sexy human beings and are possibly the most intelligent and attractive people alive.

Dickon, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ever notice how when you read magazines all the reviews are short and snappy and then you look back on them and realise they're not in good english at all. I mean I'm the 18 year old here and I even think its decadent. I solemnly swear to use good english in all my work.

Ronan, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In that case, you had better start using the proper form of "it's". As for critics? Good ones make you think as much as the music did, if not helping you to think about music you wouldn't have before. Bad ones say nothing, mean nothing, and cause no thought. Inbetween ones guide you with decent taste.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with Ronan's point. Having a good review that's badly-written leaves me with mixed feelings. I think I prefer a well-written scathing critique, because ultimately I adore good writing of any kind.

Dickon Edwards, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

most artists are arrogant, self-doubting idiotic self promoters who enjoy the phallic dream, carried over from their youths of paraading in front of the mirro with a hiarbrush. then again, so are most critics.

Geoff, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I also think that if a critic can be entertaining and genuinely funny in their own way, as opposed to espousing lazy sarcasm, then they're always worth reading regardless of actual content. Steven Wells reviewed a gig by the moribund Elastica last year, and although I have scant interest in the group, I read his piece because I admire his notoriously off-message writing style. It actually had me laughing out loud, something I usually try not to do alone in cafes.

Dickon Edwards, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And, yes, I STILL parade in front of the mirror. But the hairbrush has been replaced by a hairshirt.

Dickon Edwards, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm neither a writer nor a musician.

I am a callous consumer of both their product and never let the fact that their product is produced by people who have feelings get in my way of evaluating their product.

I'm terrible at avoiding telling people what I think of their product. I've often told musicians that I am not keen on some aspect of their work. I said to emil y of this parish that her band were nearly great but the vocals lacked texture and this ruined them (I also said that the last song they played when I saw them was fantastic and it was a shame more of their songs weren't that good)

This faint praise didn't seem to bother the band too much (and I did mean it, they really are nearly great). Many musicians seem to cope with this OK as long as it isn't sneering or supercillious critisism.

But it is never wise to talk to Writers about their work. Mention that you disliked a poor piece of writing and the, uh, critisism of the critic will be received with immediate and complete hostility (see the black type on the NME letters page for examples).

I'm not sure I get how this works.

Alexander Blair, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Every writer should be limited to one major piece a year, like artists are to albums. As it is the dreadful shadow of space-filling always seems to loom, and you feel like a teacher writing "waffle" in the margin.

I like writers to be just as good as the best things they review, and they almost never are.

Alasdair, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Having been on both sides of the equation--I think for the most part musical criticism has very little to do with the actual music.

The exception to this is when it's a jazz/classical/formalised music critique. But a lot of reviewers in the indie/pop genres tend to capitalise on fashion. I mean, to an extent, that's what pop is. But it should never be more about trends than the content. As a result, things that are more considered and less cool often get passed by. And this influences musicians in turn, who, while despising critics, yearn to be lauded by them--and thusly attempt to be the "new" thing even though the "new" thing may not actually have any intrinsic worth.

It never ceases to amaze me when critics who are woefully unequipped to cover a genre does it seemingly with no shame. Wire is a perfect example--some punkass indie reviewer thinks that because he can spell Nancarrow and has heard something called twelve-tone row, that he is fully qualified to pass judgement on it. I actually read a review where someone compared Steve Reich to Tangerine Dream. The gall that it must take to assume that your know-next-to-nothing opinion is an apt judgement on work that is most probably ten or twelve levels above your head is stunning!

The usual argument from people in that situation is that all they're doing is talking about their relative perspective--and everyone's perspective is valid. Well, that might be the case, but the reason that critics get paid is because they are usually assumed to have some mastery of the genre, or at least an informed opinion to make a reasonable assessment of the value of a work on which they are passing judgment. I mean, would you want Ravi Shankar to review the latest Wu-Tang cd? (Other than for the novelty of it, I mean.) If not, then why the fuck would you want a reviewer who has grown up listening to Stereolab to review Tuval Throat Singers?

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Musicians have a narrow outlook about their music in the here & now. They don't listen to ten new CD's every week so they don't really know what environment they're sending their latest achievement into. To them, their new album is a unique piece of art, instead of one among among many vying for attention. I would have to be really really sure of myself (and my music) to let it be released to the outside world. Musicians don't care. They really believe they deserve any adoration thrown at them and its never enough.

JoB, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mickey raises some excellent points here & I wish I had the time to think this through. I feel like I've read good writing about music from somebody who "didn't know what they were talking about" in terms of background. There was a great piece in the print version of Last Plane to Jakarta about a strange bit of pop music from Thailand. Darnielle obviously knew nothing about the music history of the region, but he still managed to translate his own experience and (I thought) offer insight into the music he discussed. But it's a complicated question, surely, one that probably deserves a thread of its own.

Mark, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think critics have several different functions. One is to predict how an audience is going to react--if a critic is acting as a barometer, then the only criterium is that he/she represents the taste of said audience, no matter what size. Another major role is to provide criticism--that is, to analyse, based on either spoken or unspoken common criteria--a piece of art. That requires a critic to know something about the genre or discipline--the more information the better. The third is criticism as art--there are gobs of great critics whose works read better than the art they criticise--in this manner, the critic is either trying to impart some prescriptive opinions--creating a fancy how-to guide--or is providing entertainment through the criticism. The New York Review of Books and the NYT Book Review are great sources of criticism as art.

Usually a critic is some mix of all three; but in the pop world, there's just so many different disciplines and so few truly well versed critics, especially critics who can play music, that the value of the criticism shifts alot.

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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