Why is manufactured pop music fronted by forgettable white dancers called "pop" but manufactured pop music fronted by forgettable black dancers called "R&B"?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Maybe someone could explain this to me, because I don't understand it.

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

This might have some explination somewhere.

Hip hop is anywhere from 69 BPM (beats per minute) to 110 BPM and is more rap oriented. Freestyle is usually faster between 111 BPM to 130+ BPM (today known as House and techno)and is more singing oriented although both mix rap and singing.

R&B is now a generic term, just as Rock N Roll is. Basically anything done by a black artist with a beat created by drum machines is R&B nowadays. It still has the rhythm however the blues is now more associated with rock artists. Rock N Roll started as a blues term meaning sex but has come to mean something totally different now. Rock N Roll really had nothing to do with loud crunching guitars, instead it was more associated (In the early Rock N Roll era 1955-1960) with do-wop records and was coined by Cleveland DJ Alan Freed.

Motown was a record lable as opposed to a style of music. Motown is any R&B artist on Motown records. Destiny's child, although compared to the Supremes is no more Motown than Aretha Franklin (she was on Atlantic records, the only lable to even compare to Motown for 60's soul). Brian McKnight I believe is on Motown making him "Motown".

As for pop music, that is a term for any record making the Billboard Hot 100 charts. Therefore, making Destiny's Child R&B and pop. Pop is just short for popular. There is a fine line between all types of music in today's society. Many artists were and are influenced by many different styles.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

But why is it that people define R&B by the skin colour of the people making it? Doesn't that seem incredibly stupid?

I mean... if someone's half black and half white, does that mean they can't make proper R&B?

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You mean a mulatto.

I don't know. If they look dark enough, they could just call themselves black. Maybe it's just that white people want to make pop music and black people want to make R&B.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

...but it's the SAME STUFF... if I heard a song performed by Britney Spears and one by Beyonce or whoever's hip now, I wouldn't be able to tell them apart if nobody told me which one was which beforehand.

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate that music so I don't really care what it is.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The categories in last year's MTV awards were a joke because everybody was nominated in every category. And there was definitely a racial element to it, for instance, JTim was nominated for Pop and Dance but not for R&B, whereas Xtina was nominated for Pop and R&B, presumably because her Latin routes classify her as "urban" and therefore appropriate for the R&B category. It's even dumber when you consider that they're all produced by the same people these days and thus sound identical to each other.
I hate categories, it's all just music to me. I organize my CD's in alphabetical order.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the nu ilm critical thinktank has exposed an unseen hypocrisy!! good work, kids!! 'boy detective - 25 cents - no case too small'

― $$, Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

TURN TO PAGE 144 FOR THE ANSWER:

''but ms. spears COULDN'T have been performing at the teen pop awards when she claims she was!', encylopedia brown shouted. the crowd gasped. britney sneered back, 'you dont have any proof, you brat!' 'oh but i do, ms spears. you see, you claimed before that you were a teen pop artist because you were said to have 'only one drop of black blood' in you. but in my research, i found that american slave law says thats more than enough for you to be considered r&b, NOT teen pop. case closed.'

― $$, Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank you, Jerome Kern, for making us laugh at race. AGAIN.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

All teen pop should be measured against the Dick Contino standard in Daddy-O.

"ROCK CANDY BABY, YOU'RE MINE!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Britney and Beyonce are highly "forgettable." I'm sure a quick google search would validate that claim.

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

We'll forget about them in 20 years. At least I hope we forget about them.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry. People still say the words "steve and edie." They aren't going anywhere.

Hell, Ned just reaffirmed people still say the words Dick Contino! And I think hiked-up pants needs a comeback.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Aja: Do you buy music you hope you'll like in 20 years? Do you think anyone will care about the Foo Fighters then?

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know who'll care about what in even 10 years. I do want people to care more about things other than rap and hip hop though.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

oooh don't you love these Electric Company/McLaughlin Group crossovers?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

do pop and r&b describe "manufactured pop music" or listener demographics?

― tricky disco (disco stu), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

that's just what i was thinking anthony..

― tricky disco (disco stu), Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

aja why do you want ppl to not care about hiphop? i mean, yes i get that you dont like it, but do you think everyone shd just listen to exactly what you do like?? for a smart 13 yr old girl im guessing alot of the appeal of nirvana etc is that everyone DOESNT listen them

― $$, Saturday, 7 February 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

If Justin Timberlake plays guitar on his next album, is it still "manufactured"?

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not thirteen yet. And how would you know wether or not I'm smart?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.seekinggod.org.uk/Main/patience/Jintempm.jpg
At the age of 12 Jesus ventured inside the great Jewish Temple and, perhaps, for the first time, He saw the paschal sacrifice of the lamb, robed men acting in the office of High Priests, while hearing the sacred prayers of His nation and smelling the consecrated Temple incnse. But more important than this, Jesus came into contact with the learned Rabbis of Israel. It is supposed at this time that Jesus spoke with Rabbi Hillil, whose teachings are recorded with high esteem in the Talmud. However, Jesus was not taught by any Rabbi -- it was He who was teaching and answering the questions of the councils, and they "were astonished at His understanding and answers"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Haley Joel Osment's greatest triumph.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that picture R&B or Pop?

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost

Daddy-O!

"Want some?"

― Blood and sparkles (bloodandsparkles), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Angel eyes..."

(It's currently playing in the background here.)

"I'm a little disappointed you didn't knock."

"And that you didn't bring any butter!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"Britney and Beyonce are highly "forgettable." I'm sure a quick google search would validate that claim.
-- bnw (rilke...)"

I don't even understand that. Are you saying that their popularity means I'll remember their latest homogenised bullshit product five minutes after I was subjected to it?

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"If Justin Timberlake plays guitar on his next album, is it still "manufactured"?
-- bnw (rilke...)"

Probably.

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

How long do you think it'll take to get him to learn, or does he already play guitar?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"If you take a gallon of fresh milk straight from a cow and allow it to sit in the refrigerator, all of the cream will completely separate, leaving you with skim milk and a layer of cream. To make "2% milk," you need for the cream to stay dissolved in the milk. Homogenization is the process of breaking up the fat globules in cream to such a small size that they remain suspended evenly in the milk rather than separating out and floating to the surface."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Aged gouda is the best, yes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Justin plays bass!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Bass is much easier than guitar!

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

And today's headline: today, a word came into common usage with a definition not identical to it's original meaning, but an adaptation of it, in this case "to make uniform".

― Stupid (Stupid), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

You know, in just a few more posts, I feel we'll have reached agreement.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

But bass is easier than guitar. Can that be our agreement?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

In other news: "Joke" especially denotes an amusing story with a punch line at the end: told jokes at the party. "Jest" suggests frolicsome humor: amusing jests that defused the tense situation. A "witticism" is a witty, usually cleverly phrased remark: a speech full of witticisms. A "quip" is a clever, pointed, often sarcastic remark: responded to the tough questions with quips. "Sally" denotes a sudden quick witticism: ended the debate with a brilliant sally. "Crack" and "wisecrack" refer less formally to flippant or sarcastic retorts: made a crack about my driving ability; punished for making wisecracks in class. "Gag" is principally applicable to a broadly comic remark or to comic by-play in a theatrical routine: one of the most memorable gags in the history of vaudeville. Regardless of what term you use, please note that blowhards often have trouble understanding the concepts they denote, taking the ironically expressed in the most literal fashion possible. It is especially troublesome for them when the joke is quite lame.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Aja's comments on race in this thread make me very uncomfortable.

― cybele (cybele), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

How?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

what?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

But why is it that people define R&B by the skin colour of the people making it? Doesn't that seem incredibly stupid?
I mean... if someone's half black and half white, does that mean they can't make proper R&B?

-- Stupid (nottellin...), February 7th, 2004.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mean a mulatto.
I don't know. If they look dark enough, they could just call themselves black. Maybe it's just that white people want to make pop music and black people want to make R&B.

-- Aja (AsiaKitty200...), February 7th, 2004.

Idonno. I guess it's the "if they look dark enough" thing.

― cybele (cybele), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

And the generalizations.

― cybele (cybele), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

also, who under the age of 40 still uses the term "mulatto"?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

racial stereotyping is a somewhat dubious game, im not sure a game to be taken as lightly as this

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

also, who under the age of 40 still uses the term "mulatto"?

I don't know. But that is the term for it so I thought I'd say it.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

do you call black people "negroes" too?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, sorry, but I was under the general impression that the word "mulatto" generally causes offense. at least it had the last time I heard the word, which was sometime in the mid-80s.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

do you call black people "negroes" too?

No. I call them African American, we'll if they are. I'm not sure what to call my friend who is mostly Jamacain.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

or more to the point: "mulatto" got me yelled at pretty severely once when I used it as a teenager, and I haven't used it since. I also haven't seen it being used in ages, so I sort of assumed it fell out of general use. anyway, I'm sorry if I snapped too hard just now.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Why'd you get yelled at for saying it?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mixed race" is the accepted term now, I believe.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

also, who under the age of 40 still uses the term "mulatto"?

Nirvana cover bands?

― adamth, Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

because the person I was referring to took offense to it.

adamth wins

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Also maybe people who are doing the Broadway version of Hairspray. One line is "Is your daughter mulatto?"

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't matter, they're both crap.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Hello Alex!

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

that line's in the movie too!

(x-post)

― joseph (joseph), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

the movie takes place in 1962

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I know. I like that movie.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 7 February 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Aja, the word 'mulatto' is Portuguese and as far as I know is connected to the word English word 'mule' which is a sterile offspring of a horse and a donkey. The metaphor implies different races (or people whose ancestory lies in different parts of the world) are different species and that's why the word is offensive and old fashioned.

― Amarga (Amarga), Sunday, 8 February 2004 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, ok. But why do you care so much that I used the word?

― Aja (aja), Sunday, 8 February 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has annoyed me. Not for any important reason, but I just can't remember which rapper referred to himself as the "mixtape mulatto". Google can't tell me. Can anyone else?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 8 February 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Amarga, I was under the impression that in Spanish anyway it isn't considered offensive. I hear it constantly in salsa songs, and it usually seems to be used rather affectionately (well, mulata, anyway). (I realize that doesn't mean it isn't offensive when used in English or perhaps Portuguese. Different languages, different rules.)

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Sunday, 8 February 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

That "Is your daughter mulatto" line from Hairspray used to make me and my ex scream with laughter. Debbie Harry says it.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 8 February 2004 07:06 (twenty-two years ago)

So is Sean Paul actually black or just pretending he is?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Sunday, 8 February 2004 10:35 (twenty-two years ago)

he's blacker than Ice-T

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 8 February 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

hell I'M blacker than Ice-T

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 8 February 2004 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(I realize that doesn't mean it isn't offensive when used in English or perhaps Portuguese. Different languages, different rules.)

Not offensive in portuguese I don't think, no, tho if the origin described above is correct, it kinda seems offensive to me now!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 8 February 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

People in England used to say "mongrel" when I was a kid.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm reading a book for school and they used the word mullato. It was writen in 1976 though.

― Aja (aja), Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)

Daniel is OTM... Everyone I know uses the word mulato in Portuguese to describe mixed race people, but not knowing of its origin. It sure makes sense, as the word for mule in Portuguese is identical ( mula ) and it refers to an animal which results of a crossbreed between species. Knowing the slaving history of my people, I am not amazed.

― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Ironically, I think it's a very pleasant sounding word (especially mulata, with the repeated "ah"), but I guess I am a sucker for the romance languages.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.