No more cd/record stores in 10 years? Wash. Post article

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20620-2004Feb6?language=printer

This articles mentions the Tower bankruptcy but focusses more on Manifest in North Carolina shutting down and other indie stores and smaller chains. Here's an excerpt from the David Segal article in the Washington Post:

"I tell retailers they need to get out of the plastic business," said Josh Bernoff, the Forrester analyst who wrote the report, titled "From Discs to Downloads." "Two-thirds of the people who currently download say that when it comes to music, it isn't important to them to hold a physical object. They're done with the CD. They just care about the songs."

If that's true, the album is doomed and the industry is headed back to its roots in the '40s and '50s, when the single was the most popular format. It's already moving that way. Last week, the punk trio Green Day released a cover of the rock classic "I Fought the Law" through a promotion advertised on the Super Bowl and available exclusively on iTunes. That's a peek at the future: Hear the song one minute, own it the next.

That's a transaction that doesn't require a record store, of course. As a precedent, consider the airline ticket. Thanks to online travel sites and the advent of ticketless travel, millions of flyers no longer think of tickets as physical objects that must be printed and brought to the airport. And that's been brutal for travel agencies: in the past three years, 30 percent of them have closed, according to Airlines Reporting Corp., which keeps tabs on the industry.

Plenty of stores like Manifest have surrendered, while others believe the end is inevitable, if not yet near.

"The fat lady is warming up, but she's not exactly singing," says Mike Dreese, who runs Newbury Comics, a music chain in Massachusetts. "We're five to seven years from a complete meltdown. The only question is whether our death is in seven years or eight. Everybody's lights are out in 10."

Later the article does note that Dreese is not going without a fight and that book stores still exist, while touching on Best Buy's loss leader philosophy and the failure of record companies to work with stores that want to get in the download biz...

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Do those of you who have lots of mp3s on your hard-drive (which I assume is most of you) do something to improve the sound quality of your PCs? Standard PC speakers are okay, but the sound of an MP3 through my computer speakers can't compete with the sound of a CD through my (very non-audiophile) boom-box.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 9 February 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate the future.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

me too.
I hereby announce a boycott of the future.

― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The iMac bulb speakers are nice but can't handle bass. If you're familiar with EQs, you can generally get around these things to certain degree but ...

― dean! (deangulberry), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Bass?! You think I listen to that modern music with bass in it? ;)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 9 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

but focusses more on Manifest in North Carolina shutting down

Probably ignoring the fact that independant buyers have bought several of the locations (including the one near me, shmee!).

Also, Manifest didn't surrender. There was nothing wrong with sales, the owner just was frustrated by large labels not willing to give his store the same power as something like iTunes (in-store kiosks where people could burn custom CDs and then purchase them) and also didn't want to be in a place where he would have to start firing people, etc. He saw large changes to the record retail business looming and felt he wasn't going to be allowed to make the changes he'd have to to survive. So he got out on top, while Manifest was still "working." There were some good articles on it, in CMJ and in some local papers, that talk more in-depth about why he did it.

― Xii (Xii), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the Manifest near me (Greenville, SC) was going out of buisiness (it was a huge deal here) but thankfully someone else bought it, so it's not closing.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The Washington Post article does touch on Manifest's problems with not being allowed by major labels to be able to sell stuff like Itunes does...

Maybe I'm too old and out-of-touch, but I thought people do want to hold a nice product in their hand, they just don't want to pay $ 15 to $ 20 for it...

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

people are adaptable, that's why we're here.
business people are creative, that's why they're here.
things will work out. people will get paid.
it might take a while though.

― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess there will still be used record/CD stores, if nothing else, right? (Even if they're musty and dank and only have a few employees.) People will buy/sell/trade used discs for a long time, I would think.

(I hate the future, too.)

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

So what happens to all the kinds of music that are inherently not single-oriented? Hip-hop, electronic music, yeah, I would be fine only doing the digital thing if I hooked up my computer to my stereo. However, most of the records I physically buy are jazz records, since they're generally undownloadable. And of course, niches aren't usually enough to support a record store, so...

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

A very interesting store in Philadelphia is just closing now, and the owners attribute it to changes brought by the internet, which I find pretty convincing in this case. It is, or was, called Afterwords primarily a magazine store, but it also sold books, posters, greeting cards, and some novelty type things. It was located in the heart of gay Philadelphia (sorry, but I have to use that cliche), and it had a gay sort of slant, but it served a broad range of customers with interests that fell outside the mainstream, an arty bohemian crowd, or bobo crowd if you prefer, but anyway, people looking for something different. It had a realy community feel to it, not just gay community, but center city community--everybody welcome here--kind of feel. For a while there, the owners used to radically redesign the place every couple months or so, or that's how it seemed. Very amusing. Anyway, they feel that magazine sales have decreased as a result of the internet, and I'm inclined to believe them. They posted a little message about this on the door. It wasn't said in a bitter way, just saying that this is how things had chnaged and they could no longer keep the store open, but it had been fun. (I have to admit that I hadn't been in the store for ages myself, although that's at least partly because not much brings me into that area any more. I once worked not far from it.)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't mind the future at all! I must be weird that way. This year I've definitely cut down my CD purchases due to budget and other reasons, and frankly I don't feel like I've missed much. That said, if my local store Noise Noise Noise closes eventually due to all this, I'll be depressed -- though since they've got enough of a focus on used vinyl and other such things, I think they'll be fine for a while yet.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

So many of my favorite record/disc shops have already gone the way of all flesh.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

You can get any kind of risible rubbish printed in The Washington Post as long as you can attach your name to an analysis group, particularly if its a controversial or some garden variety doom-is-coming-in-some-fashion claim.

End OF Records! "In ten years, tops, everyone over forty will spontaneously die, and they're useless in every way anyway, so there'll be no one to buy CDs!!!" said Roger Nincompoople for the Hyperbolic Market Analysis Group.

"Only kids are interested in music and they won't buy anything, maybe just MP3s! And they're going to die, too, eventually. In a decade, everyone's fucked, permanently..."

― George Smith, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The advent of digital technology and the internet has shrunk the world in so many ways, but as the lowly, geekster music fan, it's virtually turned it upside down. Why bother scouring through specialty shops, dusty mom'n'pop outlets and/or record shows, when you can order your seemingly once-elusive quarry online or via eBay without even having to put pants on? For me, a huge part of the fun was actually seeking out those hard to find singles or rare promo CD singles. The hunt has been rendered moot now, and that saddens me. And puts a lot of people out of business.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Why bother scouring through specialty shops, dusty mom'n'pop outlets and/or record shows,

Because it gets you out of the house? An important thing if you're not planning on life as a permanent shut-in or facsimile of a computer chip.

― George Smith, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't really not care about artifacts that much, but I can deal with as long as I have access to the music I want and get decent sound quality. I want the kinks worked out before I started giving up any CDs though.

I can do without the hunt. I'll take the kiss without a lot of anticipation, John Keats notwithstanding.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not just analysts quoted in that article, George; also people like the guy who runs Newbury Comics.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Because it gets you out of the house? An important thing if you're not planning on life as a permanent shut-in or facsimile of a computer chip.

Well, George, that's my point....it was a rhetorical question. I'm all FOR getting up and out and interacting with the world, as opposed to sitting in front of a computer screen.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

more from the W. Post article:
"The music store of the future will have to be an arcade," says Roy Trakin, editor of Hits magazine, a music industry tip sheet. "A place where you can try out things, grab legal downloads, see performances."

Retailers are also scrambling for a seat at the digital download table. A consortium of the biggest players -- including Virgin, Tower and FYE -- will launch their own downloadable music stores through a technology company they jointly invested in, called Echo. The idea is that Echo will allow the stores to split the cost of building a downloadable sales infrastructure, then handle transactions and downloads on separately branded Web sites.

"Our members do $5 billion worth of business now," says Echo's president, Dan Hart. "The question is, how do you leverage those assets?"

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no! Change! Run!

― adam (adam), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course an indie(mostly rock but some other genres) store in DC that sold new and used cds and had some live performances has closed down, and another one like it is struggling.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I have the impression (from articles I read on the subject in the last year or so) that Amoeba Music here on the West Coast (Berkeley/SF/L.A.) is still going like gangbusters, but don't quote me on that.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not just analysts quoted in that article

No, it's also a lash-up of anecdotes and closings knit into a tapestry of bull and passed off as daily newspaper wisdom about an inexorable trend.

Let's see, record stores in Pasadena: A couple in old town, apparently doing OK. Tower Records -- maybe doomed. Canterbury in the center of town, apparently doing OK. Poobah's -- recently forced to move toward west side of town on Colorado because the house it was renting in was sold. Liquid Music -- still open the last time I passed by a few months ago. Mom and pop's outnumber the giant boxter,
which is supposed to be in trouble. Oh yeah, and BestBuy -- which is also doing all right. And I'm sure I've missed a couple.

Talk to friend who runs mom & pop record store in Lehigh Valley, about once a week. Business was poorer a couple years ago, now better.
No forcast, either way.

― George Smith, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the Manifest near me (Greenville, SC) was going out of buisiness

That's the Manifest near me too.

― Xii (Xii), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the Amoeba here in SF is *always* packed, I doubt they're in any kidn of trouble. But I think they're counter-acting the industry doldrums thru both the quality and vast quantity of their inventory.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 9 February 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

There are still plenty of music stores in my metro area, with more opening as others close. I see the "downloading is killing my business" line as a partial cop-out for owners/managers that do a poor job of keeping their offerings current, interesting, and affordable. The average price of cds at the most thriving shops around here is about $12.99; if you don't offer a good selection AND price your product around $16.99, don't be surprised when you go out of business.

I believe that plenty of music lovers will continue to purchase cds. Hell, plenty of people still buy vinyl, don't they? Wasn't that supposed to end with the advent of the cd? Weren't we supposed to be living in a paperless society right now due to the advent of the personal computer? Things change. The music industry is being forced into change, so everyone runs around screaming that the sky is falling.

Rockist, do you have a stereo? I run a line in from my pc to my tuner, and play mp3s through my stereo speakers. It makes a HUGE difference in sound quality.

― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Sooo... that was Green Day during the Stupor Bowl then?

― ModJ (ModJ), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

So, in 10 years people are going to be willing to pay for what they now get for free?? WTF? IF it comes to that, then i think i would rather have a disc in case my hard drive/ipod whatever crashes on me, correct?? Even when "The Day" comes when the RIAA gets all the Kazaa's and whomever shut down, people will still be sharing files won't they??

I've got record collectors disease so i know i'll keep my friendly neighborhood independent record store in business as much as i can. I love the vibe, i love removing the outer plastic wrap, i've even learned to love removing that pain in the arse Pull sticker at the top.

...and it's a chance to get out and hear stuff i never would otherwise.

― Phil Dokes (sunny), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Even when "The Day" comes when the RIAA gets all the Kazaa's and whomever shut down, people will still be sharing files won't they??

There will always be Russian FTPs.

― Xii (Xii), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

one thing that seems to never be addressed in most articles and writing about internet commerce, etc., is that if all of these stores go out, cities are going to be very fucking boring. (it wouldn't be a stretch to say: attitude towards cities = attitude towards democracy.)

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 9 February 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

There's always food, though. And drink.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 February 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

true but given recent trends in retail over the last few years... i mean, this is definitely something for another thread, but lots of mid-sized cities in the US are really buying into the whole new-urbanist themed retail downtown redevelopment shizzle (nyc and la are simply too big for, say, the "disneyification" of times square to matter that much in comparison) and so cities without compelling retail will also be filled with themed restaurants and bars, and most "independant" food and drink retailers these days are just as concept-driven as their corporate counterparts, meaning that any new "anti-corporate" and "authentic" retail venture is just as fake as the tree in a Rainforest Cafe (if you think I am just being alarmist, come visit DC and I will give you a tour!).

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 00:04 (twenty-two years ago)

There will always be Russian FTPs.

Ho-ho-HOOO! ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Amoeba makes very little money on new releases (10-30% mark-up depending on the distributor). They make more money on buying used LPs/CDs/DVDs for a fraction of their retail price and managing the float on ROI.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

has anyone thought that maybe people are downloading and not buying because the ECONOMY FUCKING SUCKS and people are out of work and on strict budgets? Get the economy back on its legs and I'll bet these stores close at a slower rate. I know I'd buy more music if I felt like I could afford to.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

We never had any to begin with down here. So hey! Amazon.com again it is! Besos for Jeff Bezos!

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I often wonder if the people in the survey are like my friend, who NEVER bought cds, he always cassette taped them off of someone else and now downloads and burns cds.

He never buys software or video games either.

His dad always was into ripping off the cable company for the pay channels.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ummmm sorry but going out buying second-hand records is not "interacting with the world" in any more meaningful way! I used to work in a s/h record shop, I know the people who went and crate-dug in our bargain basements, human interaction was the last thing on their minds! W/ the interweb my shopping/searching time is vastly curtailed and I can spend more time with my wife or in the pub or even listening to the stuff I have. If this is the future I'm keen as mustard.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 01:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Tico Tico, yeah but you have a life.

Not to say Alex in NYC doesn't, but think of the rest of us socially disabled types.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear Rockisto, which emotico' do I fail to see at the end of your message?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

A frown because it's more true (in my case) than I'd prefer? :(

It's okay though, as long as I have dancing to fall back on I manage.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

This is science fiction the way I see it. The album will obviously not die because there is such as large group of people who will hate to see it die. It may be dying among the kids, but the kids aren't the only ones who buy music.

The single, as an actual physical format not just something you download, may be dying though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I keep seeing this thread title as being about the life of a music writer...

1. Wake up in the morning
2. Wash
3. Post Article

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

It's funny to see how some don't really care, or rather, look forward to the future. Sadly, the same can't be said of our local recordshop owner: He's seen sale plummit over the last few years. It isn't a problem as long as it doesn't affect you (or your wallet).

― nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Has noone considered that music stores might adapt to the download culture? At the moment it seems to me that people are saying it's either downloads go or the stores do. I think the stores need to shift their marketing to ensure maximum profit from those customers who do want a tangible object. Innovation is what the record stores need!
That being said, I do think downloading music is really not cool. I wish people woud be more responsible. All the stories of local record stores going out of business are terrible.

― Jole (Jole), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"I wish people woud be more responsible. All the stories of local record stores going out of business are terrible."

Clean 'n' sober since Audiogalaxy's untimely passing... and still counting.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

mmmm sorry but going out buying second-hand records is not "interacting with the world" in any more meaningful way! I used to work in a s/h record shop, I know the people who went and crate-dug in our bargain basements, human interaction was the last thing on their minds! W/ the interweb my shopping/searching time is vastly curtailed and I can spend more time with my wife or in the pub or even listening to the stuff I have. If this is the future I'm keen as mustard.

Maybe you should change your moniker to DICKO DICKO, `cos that's what yer being.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 87 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

they're probably the largest vendor of *new* vinyl aka m@tt otm

― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 21:42 (eleven years ago)

Record stores only really make money on used items, too.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 21:42 (eleven years ago)

yeah actually amazon--predictably--sells more copies. and yeah Urban Outfitters sells more vinyl b/c they are one of the few massive chains that sells vinyl. so it's a misleading statistic.

maybe i'm just kind of blinded by the fact that i cannot understand why a 19-year-old wants to spend $30 on a new vinyl version of some hot new album when it is much cheaper and more convenient to spend $15 (or less) on it by downloading it from the label, iTunes, whatever. more convenient as a purchase, more options re. where and how to listen to it, etc. and based on my limited knowledge a lot of folks have really shitty USB record players.

i have to wonder if it's the very inconvenience and expense of vinyl that makes it an attractive purchase to some people. it becomes a symbol--of one's devotion to a band or to music in general, or just to one's ability to make such a purchase. i don't think these "reasons" would need to be fully conscious to be true.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 21:47 (eleven years ago)

FWIW i still think younger folks buying vinyl is very much the exception. i briefly DJ'ed at a local college radio station and all the undergrads there just brought in flash drives, laptops, iPads, etc. with MP3s to play over the air. in fact, the record players and CD players were used so infrequently that they were often left in disrepair and nobody complained.

the result of playing lossy MP3s over the air results, btw, in predictably shitty-sounding radio much of the time.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 21:49 (eleven years ago)

there were a few undergrads who insisted on playing stuff on vinyl but they formed a small, hard core of nerdism

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 21:50 (eleven years ago)

"maybe i'm just kind of blinded by the fact that i cannot understand why a 19-year-old wants to spend $30 on a new vinyl version of some hot new album when it is much cheaper and more convenient to spend $15 (or less) on it by downloading it from the label, iTunes, whatever. more convenient as a purchase, more options re. where and how to listen to it, etc. and based on my limited knowledge a lot of folks have really shitty USB record players."

Few things-

1. It isn't always $30 vs. $15, Sometimes it's $17 vs. $12 or something
2. Incentives can be a really snazzy package, with limited colored vinyl and all that stuff that makes them want it beyond reason because they're suckered into the hobby of "collecting"
3. Most importantly- you left out the part about the MP3 card included with 90% of albums teenagers would buy! This makes any mark up justified because they still get the convenience of MP3s.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 21:58 (eleven years ago)

yeah, i guess as i get older and accumulate more stuff i really highly prize space and all the deluxxxe box sets the size of my head have little appeal...

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:00 (eleven years ago)

i'm still kind of weird in that if i'm going to pay for something i want a physical copy, not a file that might disappear when my hard drive decides to play dead. but i want that physical copy to be maximally convenient and minimally sized....

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:00 (eleven years ago)

Like if you check r/vinyl as an anthropologist, you'll see that they fetishize mostly new and common releases that cater to the MP3 need. They'd probably lose fans if they didn't. And even if they can't get the files directly they'll figure out a way to download them.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:02 (eleven years ago)

right xp

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:03 (eleven years ago)

Convenience is why vinyl went away in the first place, it has nothing to do with why it came back.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:04 (eleven years ago)

Teenagers were brought up with the idea that they could get anything from the internet they want. So if they're actually going to shell out money for something physical it better be substantial. CDs don't provide the reward of ownership, and they aren't as free or as convenient as MP3s so they're in a kind of purgatory.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:07 (eleven years ago)

xpost

right -- i was suggesting that the very inconvenience of the format has something to do with its current (and possibly ephemeral?) appeal.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:07 (eleven years ago)

and by inconvenience i mean its stubborn, cumbersome nature, which also imparts its collector appeal, because it's big and snazzy

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:08 (eleven years ago)

I presume that unless they're nerding out about their equipment and the sound of vinyl vs. other formats, they're just buying the records as trophies they can mine mp3s from. 2 kinds of customers there.

― Evan, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:10 (eleven years ago)

my SO had a roommate who certainly fit the first description. she bought her favorite albums on vinyl but never listened to them in that format. but maybe i'm being an asshole by assuming that's true of a lot of the other folks who are helping to drive the current vinyl bubble.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:12 (eleven years ago)

part of me is just grossed out that "capitalism" (i know that ascribing agency to an impersonal force like that is problematic) has found a way to sell people vinyl based in part on the very qualities for which it was (not so very long ago) disparaged in favor of the CD. it just seems so stupid and wasteful to me. but i also realize that in some cases it is one of the few ways that artists can make money off of their music, the very reason vinyl is pushed so heavily on merch tables at shows etc. so it's not a simple thing.

i think in general it's a very confusing time. the music that most people would want to listen to is quite easy to get for free, so paying to listen to it becomes a choice. all kinds of different and sometimes contradictory behaviors and choices flow from that--ones that wouldn't make sense in an era when for the most part if you wanted to hear something you had to go out and buy it.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:16 (eleven years ago)

it just seems so stupid and wasteful to me.

How do those workers who make your iPhone in Chinese factories feel? Or copper miners?

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:52 (eleven years ago)

I'm sorry but it just drives me nuts when people are like "oh haven't we moved on beyond this fetishization of objects in this digital age maaaan?" When apple products are some of the most fetishized objects ever

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:56 (eleven years ago)

FWIW i still think younger folks buying vinyl is very much the exception

Thirdly absolutely no one was arguing that God was the case

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:57 (eleven years ago)

This not God

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 October 2014 22:57 (eleven years ago)

yeah instead of buying records now people buy entire new mediums to play their music on every couple of years, the magic of capitalism etc. (I have had the same record player for 25 years btw)

or what matt said (again)

― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 23:03 (eleven years ago)

I, for one, am looking forward to the day when I go into a used vinyl store and find numerous $5 or less copies of Lana Del Rey and Paolo Nutini vinyl.

― You and Dad's Army? (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:03 (eleven years ago)

???

why are you making me into some apple-adoring straw man?

and why would you assume that i think that the contradictions involved in the vinyl market somehow negate or trump the problems with the digital consumer product supply chain?

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:04 (eleven years ago)

xxpost

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:04 (eleven years ago)

"God was the case" makes me think of a born-again snoop dogg album

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:06 (eleven years ago)

i've been buying more (used) vinyl lately! discogs is kind of dangerous. but i just look for deals. it's always been about price for me.
here's what I got this week, it is great
http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/UEMI_SLS988__81696__03272012090142-2718.jpg

― tylerw, Friday, 10 October 2014 23:08 (eleven years ago)

why are you making me into some apple-adoring straw man?

Because you've been making every one that bus vinyl into a straw man urban outfitters shopping extra from Girls?

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:14 (eleven years ago)

lol

― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 23:15 (eleven years ago)

why are you making me into some apple-adoring straw man?
Because you've been making every one that bus vinyl into a straw man urban outfitters shopping extra from Girls?
― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, October 10, 2014 6:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i suppose i've been leaning in that direction in some posts, but i've mentioned a few times that i don't think all vinyl collectors (I'm one of them!) are like that, just that a lot of the "boom" in new vinyl sales in recent years is likely due to a kind of mainstream interest in vinyl among younger folks. do you think that's wrong? it's possible that it is.

you're being kind of ass btw, but this is ILM, so you know...

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:17 (eleven years ago)

and yeah classical vinyl can be had for really cheap, except for the real collector bait stuff. actually classical anything can be had for real cheap. my tastes were shaped in large part by what genres you could get used CDs and LPs for cheap in the 1990s/2000s... that means a lot of classical and jazz, esp.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 23:18 (eleven years ago)

what are we supposed to be upset about again?

― brimstead, Friday, 10 October 2014 23:32 (eleven years ago)

people who aren't as cool as us

― Evan, Saturday, 11 October 2014 01:52 (eleven years ago)

Let's see, record stores in Pasadena: A couple in old town, apparently doing OK. Tower Records -- maybe doomed. Canterbury in the center of town, apparently doing OK. Poobah's -- recently forced to move toward west side of town on Colorado because the house it was renting in was sold. Liquid Music -- still open the last time I passed by a few months ago. Mom and pop's outnumber the giant boxter,
which is supposed to be in trouble. Oh yeah, and BestBuy -- which is also doing all right. And I'm sure I've missed a couple.
― George Smith, Monday, February 9, 2004 1:28 PM

Tower is closed, Moby Disc is closed, Liquid Music is closed. Poobah's is continuing on the strength of vinyl, their CD section (even the used) is sad. Canterbury is still there, but I don't think they're doing that well. Best Buy has sunk quite a bit in selection, as has Fry's in Burbank (they were very impressive when they opened). The jazz store on Hill I think is gone. The record swap meet is still going strong, for both vinyl and CD. Thank god for Amoeba.

― nickn, Saturday, 11 October 2014 08:00 (eleven years ago)

Man I love CDs tbh. I like to have that focus on one album at a time.

― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, October 10, 2014 12:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

Interesting thread here. My habit is to buy everything I really want or like on vinyl, but like marcos, I find there is very little time nowadays to devote to actually sitting down and interfacing with a record. The result is that my wife and I buy a lot of vinyl that sits in a pile, unplayed, for weeks, even months at a time (the same was true of Netflix DVDs before we had streaming). As opposed as I am to the idea of a digital or cloud-based music collection (see below), I'm not sure Spotify or whatever has as much to do with this as just having a life that doesn't really accommodate those wonderful hours of sedentary sloth many of us prized when we were teenagers / undergrads / etc. Listening to vinyl becomes, for us, a special occasion sorta thing; a reward for having accomplished shit during the day. We drink wine, smoke weed, jam a Freddie Hubbard record.

I can't listen to vinyl while I cook because flipping the sides (especially if it's a double record) becomes a pain in the ass and a major obstacle to enjoying the music. I can finally admit this now: vinyl is sometimes not worth the trouble.

But here's where things get wacky: I recently decided to buy a cheap stereo CD player--not a boombox, but the cheapest thing with actual detachable speakers I could find--and a spool of blank CDs. I have been burning things from my iTunes and listening to them one at a time (as opposed to within a playlist) in my office. I've been burning albums that are 33 minutes long and not coupling them with other short albums, because I want to know, definitively, when the albums begin and end. I have found that I have been absorbing music the way I used to--I am listening to albums as opposed to hearing them while other stuff is happening. Each album gets its own time, and remains in the CD player until I'm done with it for the day. I realize this shows my age (I'm 36, and my relationship to music was definitely formed, more or less, by the CD). But I also find CDs really underrated as a format, especially now that you can get them for pennies on the dollar: There's a Half Price Books near my house that regularly sticks things in the dollar bin I'd have gladly paid $15.99 for ten years ago. I'm sure the idea of buying a basket full of Constantines and Tortoise CDs seems wasteful and maybe even crazy to some of you, but I just can't resist those bargains.

As for CDs ever coming back, though, I definitely wouldn't count on that. Cheap, yes, and underrated, yes, but these things don't even have the shelf life of cassettes (I inherited some of my dad's from the early 80s that still play fine). Have you tried to play a CDR from 2005 recently? You might be pretty disappointed when you do.

― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Saturday, 11 October 2014 11:03 (eleven years ago)

Yeah like all those awesome rudy van gelder jazz reissues

― u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 October 2014 14:12 (eleven years ago)

these things don't even have the shelf life of cassettes

You're referring to CD-Rs and not CDs, of course. I've many cassettes that we used to record our band in the 90s that tragically were not digitized before they went flakey. And yet, with the exception of my PDO discs and those that I stupidly treated with that purple shit to try to remove scratches, I've had no trouble with information loss on CDs.

― doug watson, Saturday, 11 October 2014 14:15 (eleven years ago)

traded with a pal and got this the other day. 1st stereo press. sounds awesome. silkscreened cover is heaven.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10710868_10153393837037137_3551678626599861571_n.jpg?oh=6b0e703c70afd98d96155c679b3bb9e0&oe=54B9BCF7&__gda__=1422296387_13ce7a893b35a8476f9864db02e74a22

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10409724_10153393838302137_2793724790645861257_n.jpg?oh=a9c4eba5b6465396e5cd29ef48ff6d0a&oe=54F4813C&__gda__=1421588778_99c467f9fe02eb9db6bf63e37acbcb4e

― scott seward, Saturday, 11 October 2014 14:52 (eleven years ago)

good story with my cranky record brother. go to the fair if you are in hudson, ny today:

http://www.registerstar.com/news/article_8f5a8532-5082-11e4-bf21-3be9064a6cf5.html

― scott seward, Saturday, 11 October 2014 14:54 (eleven years ago)

“With a CD, there’s an endless ringing in your ears if you play it at high volume. On a cross-country trip, with a cassette player, your ears would still be fine, but with a CD, you’d have hearing damage.

This is the first I've heard of this phenomenon. Any empirical evidence? Also as someone who suffers from tinnitus acquired in the pre-digital sound era, I'd argue that loud is loud regardless of the source.

― doug watson, Saturday, 11 October 2014 15:35 (eleven years ago)

I feel like some of that was explored in one of our digital compression threads but I can;t search right now

― sleeve, Saturday, 11 October 2014 15:36 (eleven years ago)

yo are you the big homie doug watson or some other doug watson?

― ILOVEMASONNA (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 11 October 2014 15:52 (eleven years ago)

i can definitely get ear fatigue from CDs. but maybe its a phenomena reserved for me and my brudder.

― scott seward, Saturday, 11 October 2014 16:18 (eleven years ago)

xp likely someone else

― doug watson, Saturday, 11 October 2014 22:02 (eleven years ago)

Sure, CDs are prone to over-compression which can lead to ear fatigue (if you don't throw them across the room first.) But this is a problem with poor mastering, not the actual format.

But my ears are always quietly ringing so maybe I'm not the best one to draw comparisons.

― doug watson, Saturday, 11 October 2014 22:16 (eleven years ago)

yeah a lot of the putative advantages of one format or another are actually just people debating mastering practices which are not intrinsic to a format

btw I've owned 1,000s of CDs and I have exactly one rot on me: a Pretenders CD I bought from BMG Music Club in the early 1990s.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 11 October 2014 22:57 (eleven years ago)

and it's true that really piss poor mastering in the 1980s or over-compression in more recent years has probably convinced some people that the CD format is terrible, but it's not the format, it's the choices made by mastering engineers

― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 11 October 2014 22:58 (eleven years ago)

it's funny when you read people talking about how much superior vinyl is and they use as an example a recent vinyl reissue that's been cut from a CD master.

― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 11 October 2014 22:59 (eleven years ago)

...but no funnier than people in the 80s who thought the shittily-mastered CDs sounded better than their pristine vinyl

my neighbor in the late 1980s ditched his entire, huge collection of jazz LPs because he thought the format was obsolete. if i had been a little older i would have gladly bought it off of him but as a 12-year-old i didn't exactly have the resources

― I dunno. (amateurist), Saturday, 11 October 2014 23:23 (eleven years ago)

I did, one time, see a huge collection of Jazz junked like that at a car boot, but I know not, and I'd have just been spoiling it for a jazz buff that would have found them after me.

― Mark G, Sunday, 12 October 2014 18:13 (eleven years ago)

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